Just curious...what religion are you? - Page 15 - MensTennisForums.com

View Poll Results: What religon are you?
Eastern Orthodox Christian 7 19.44%
Catholic 11 30.56%
Protestant 4 11.11%
Other-Christian 0 0%
Muslim 1 2.78%
Buddhist 0 0%
Hindu 1 2.78%
Jewish 0 0%
Other 12 33.33%
Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll

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post #211 of 297 (permalink) Old 06-18-2013, 08:47 PM
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Re: Just curious...what religion are you?

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Originally Posted by Pratik View Post
Since I would rather not go through this conversation for a millionth time,

So...if something can't be proven to not exist, it exists? And if you don't understand something, best to just accept something others believe totally without evidence?



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post #212 of 297 (permalink) Old 06-18-2013, 09:08 PM
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Re: Just curious...what religion are you?

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Originally Posted by BauerAlmeida View Post
How do you know? How are you sure there are not 2? 3? 10?

Why there aren't more than one? Because if there would have been more than one, it would have been just a chaos. Can you imagine a country with two rulers? If there would be more, they wouldn't agree on anything.


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Originally Posted by BauerAlmeida View Post
Seriously, this is one of the worst arguments ever that theists use to justify a God's existence. And no, the world doesn't seem intelligently designed. We wouldn't have tornadoes, earthquakes, volcano eruptions, floods, droughts, etc.

Sure! To you it doesn't seem perfectly designed. If you can design a better one, I think you should Listen! I'm not a scientist, but I'm sure there are plenty of explanations of how the natural phenomenon you have mentioned have shaped the earth and continue to shape the earth. I don't see them as a flaw.

Besides, in religious world these natural calamities are served as a sign from God. A reminder for people to straighten their ways! Sometimes, they happen to support a man of God. I would not delve into history. It's definitely not possible through an internet forum.


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If you think that, then how much more does a God require a creator? A God is much more complex and detailed, surely it couldn't be materialized on it's own, right? Something had to create it.
God cannot be created, because He has been in existence since always. Something has to be created, if it wasn't there. Something has to be created if it cannot sustain on its own. But God is Living and Self-Subsisting and Self-Sustaining.

Listen! Like I said before I believe in God, because of my personal experiences. I wouldn't share with some strangers via an internet forum. And I believe in God because I've seen men of God and I've seen how God helps them. And I'm extremely grateful for that. But you know once you have decided to deny Him, it's hard to accept again. It takes effort to deny God's existence. It's not the most natural thing. Otherwise atheists would be in majority. But if you are serious in truly knowing whether He exists or not, there's only way. You would have to ask Him to show you a proof. Ask Him without any malice, bitterness or prejudice in your heart. If He doesn't answer, then you can be justified that He doesn't exist. That's the only one way.

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post #213 of 297 (permalink) Old 06-18-2013, 09:10 PM
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Re: Just curious...what religion are you?

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Originally Posted by djokovicgonzalez View Post
So...if something can't be proven to not exist, it exists? And if you don't understand something, best to just accept something others believe totally without evidence?
Of course not. How do even reach that conclusion? As I said in the post following the picture:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pratik View Post
It's just a light way of saying that just because one can not perceive something(or "prove" it), it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
It was in response to Lopez saying that if it can not be proved, one should assume it doesn't exist.

Why is it that people on this thread assume that everyone else is an extremist? There are infinite shades of gray.
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post #214 of 297 (permalink) Old 06-18-2013, 09:20 PM
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Re: Just curious...what religion are you?

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Originally Posted by djokovicgonzalez View Post
So...if something can't be proven to not exist, it exists? And if you don't understand something, best to just accept something others believe totally without evidence?
Just read again what you have written. If you can't prove something doesn't exist, what does it mean in reverse? It means that what you are trying to disprove actually exists. If it didn't exist you would have proven its non-existence. After all it's easier to prove that something doesn't exist.

And by the same token, should we accept that something doesn't exist because some people say so without any proof of its non-existence?

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post #215 of 297 (permalink) Old 06-18-2013, 09:31 PM
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Re: Just curious...what religion are you?

I guess I'm done posting in this non-tennis forum. I don't think it's futile anyway. Besides I'm not a fan of carrying on religious discussion on internet forums. Besides, I don't have enough time for this. Just look at the number of posts I've posted since joining MTF I've barely time to post in general messages section So Adios from me! May God bless you all!

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post #216 of 297 (permalink) Old 06-18-2013, 09:34 PM
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Re: Just curious...what religion are you?

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Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
That is like shuffling some cards and saying "what are the chances of these cards being in this exact sequence??".

Also, you seem to be big on wanting proof. Well, show us proof of your God.
Yup, and what are the chances? I'm not sure there's a number big enough to express them. Btw, I don't think there's proof good enough to satisfy a high priest of atheism like yourself I also don't have a proof there are other civilizations in space, but I do believe it's very likely there are some, and that SETI, the Kepler mission, and the follow up missions are doing the right thing

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post #217 of 297 (permalink) Old 06-18-2013, 10:34 PM
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Re: Just curious...what religion are you?

Things are getting heated up here. I'm going to be honest here: I don't consider myself an atheist because imo a fancy name for people who don't believe in God would be the same as coming up with a fancy name for people who don't believe in Santa Claus or Snow White. That's how I see it.

With that said, I have friends who are highly religious and I know their faith can help them very often in some ways, so I have nothing against people who believe in a superior being as long as they don't try to impose the same beliefs on others or act as if it's anything apart from their faith. As has been mentioned by a few people here, when you claim the existance of a fantastic being the onus of proof is on you if you really want to convince others that's the case. It's a belief, as legitimate as any other, but that's it.

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post #218 of 297 (permalink) Old 06-19-2013, 03:44 AM
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Re: Just curious...what religion are you?

I was born Catholic, but I'm not a religious person. I sometimes refer to myself as an Agnostic when others ask. I have been really interested in Buddhism, but as I said, I do not worship a god.

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post #219 of 297 (permalink) Old 06-19-2013, 09:03 AM
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Re: Just curious...what religion are you?

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No it doesn't, it's merely a matter of a personal preference or belief; religious folks believe it all started from a creator, while the other side believes it all started from nothing, neither really can prove their views, they only believe in different things.
Why do people always start to discuss the begining of the universe and the begining of life when they discuss evolution? These questions are really not the subject of evolution.

The theory of Evolution:
Evolution is the change in the inherited characteristics of biological populations over successive generations. Evolutionary processes give rise to diversity at every level of biological organisation, including species, individual organisms and molecules such as DNA and proteins.

The Big Bang and the first Creation of Life could be done by god, still evolution would be perfectly correct.

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I shall answer by an analogy,

Imagine that you, by yourself, were to make a vehicle with no information on how to do so.
Omnipotent , all knowing god does not know how to do stuff?

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post #220 of 297 (permalink) Old 06-19-2013, 09:40 AM
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Re: Just curious...what religion are you?

None (where is that poll option btw?)

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post #221 of 297 (permalink) Old 06-19-2013, 04:12 PM
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Re: Just curious...what religion are you?

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Sure! To you it doesn't seem perfectly designed. If you can design a better one, I think you should
If I was all powerful, all knowing, all everything yes. I would have done a better job (I'm sure if God existed he would have a done a better job).

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Listen! Like I said before I believe in God, because of my personal experiences.
Fair enough, I have no problem with people believing in God, but "personal experiences" are not an objective measure to prove something. Some people claim to believe in aliens because of personal experiences and I don't believe them.


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Originally Posted by viva-rafa View Post
But you know once you have decided to deny Him, it's hard to accept again. It takes effort to deny God's existence. It's not the most natural thing. Otherwise atheists would be in majority. But if you are serious in truly knowing whether He exists or not, there's only way. You would have to ask Him to show you a proof. Ask Him without any malice, bitterness or prejudice in your heart. If He doesn't answer, then you can be justified that He doesn't exist. That's the only one way.
I was catholic for years, so that doesn't apply to me. I just started questioning if my beliefs were justified and I realized they weren't. And no, it doesn't take any effort to deny God's existence and it is the natural thing to not believe in something that has no evidence. Majority doesn't mean ANYTHING. Millions of people used to believe the earth was flat and it wasn't. Every single person in this planet may believe something and still be wrong or vice versa.

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Originally Posted by viva-rafa View Post
If you can't prove something doesn't exist, what does it mean in reverse? It means that what you are trying to disprove actually exists. If it didn't exist you would have proven its non-existence. After all it's easier to prove that something doesn't exist.

And by the same token, should we accept that something doesn't exist because some people say so without any proof of its non-existence?
The periodic table of imaginary things is, literally, infinite. Nobody tries to prove something does not exist, because it's impossible. We can't prove that unicorns, fairies or the flying spaghetti monster does not exist either.

If you claim something exists, the burden of proof falls in you to prove it, if someone makes a claim without any evidence, the logical thing is to deny it.
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post #222 of 297 (permalink) Old 06-19-2013, 05:13 PM
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Re: Just curious...what religion are you?

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Well, I'm used to being told that I'll burn in hell.
Where you will go after death is indifferent to me, for the 36,548,581st time.


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Like the one with the 16th century farm houses. One of your classics in connection with the French Revolution.
French Revolution in the 16th century, lol? 18th century farm houses. I find it very bold to deny what I said because I spent myself a holiday in a 18th century farm house in the 90's in the Var, close to the Riviera. Still standing, rock solid and large enough to easily shelter 10 people.

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Which a handful of wanton atheists managed to stage against France's happy, well-fed and well cared for population.
It's true ! French people during the reign of Louis XV were well-fed and cared for. You had the so-called police des subsistances to make sure that the sustenance is fairly delivered after a bad harvest or a war or any difficulty or whatever. Nobody could get rich on people's bread. The basic principle of the Monarchy.

Unfortunately Louis XV dies too young in 1774 and his successor has not been trained to reign and hence the Enlightened Philosophers (most of whom were indeed atheists, or else theists like Voltaire but in any case anti-Christians and very rich men !) capitalized on that to send their man to the government, namely Turgot (the F.R. was prepared from a long way back).

Turgot abolished the police des subsistances and established the free Grain trade. He was disgraced by the King but the Revolutionaries took up all his ideas and the free Grain trade were re-established in August 1789. Turgot also promoted child labour ... Very nice your Rationalists ...



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And how I kept trying to explain to you that being an atheist doesn't make me a Bolshevikh or a Stalinist? (Like in this post here.)
The French Revolutionaries of 1789 were atheists, that did not make them Bosheviks either. Still they massacred the Vendeans for their beliefs.

I could say the same about Calles in Mexico during the Cristeros War (for those who saw the wonderful film Cristiada, starring Andy Garcia) ...

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Unfortunately, you're not quite as concerned when it comes to the crimes that have been committed in the name of the Catholic Church.
Those good old double standards...
The day the crimes committed by atheists are recognized as motivated by their atheism, I might start a discussion, not before.

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Listen! It's not syncretism to recognize the common truth in all religions. [...]
In ALL religions (or doctrines generally considered religions), I think it's very hard to find a common denominator. I more or less agree on what you say about the prophets. I'm also all for an alliance between Christians and Islam because I think we have many things in common (universalism, disbelief in material pleasures, etc.)[though we have differences too]. After all, many Catholic thinkers had sympathies for Muslims and I have respect for an Orthodox guy like Alexander Dugin who would also campaign for that. I think the Christians who are spitting at Muslims are doing a dirty job because we have so many things in common, in terms of values.

However I can't find universalism in every religion/ideology. The Judaist religion is as tribalist as can be. And I think it's also the case for Hinduism and it's cast system.

But as Douglas Reed put it, the Christians, Muslims, Confucianists and Buddhists are all happy to differ with God as a meeting point.


Quote:
Originally Posted by viva-rafa
And as far as the death of Jesus is concerned[...]
OK. No time to discuss it thoroughly but it's interesting. But I mean if you're right, that means the "official Islam" is wrong, doesn't it? If the Sunnis are right, then the Shiites are wrong, aren't they?

I don't like the idea that a book might be 'pluri-interpretable'. It's an atheist trick !

Quote:
Originally Posted by viva-rafa
It is what you may call the "evolution" of religion.
Horror, lol. Perhaps I did not really get what you mean but a religion should have a fixed and strict moral, otherwise it's hypocrisy. Adapting itself to the context of the time and to the world, that's one of the teachings of the Vatican II Council...

Last edited by Echoes; 06-19-2013 at 05:18 PM.
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post #223 of 297 (permalink) Old 06-19-2013, 05:28 PM
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Re: Just curious...what religion are you?

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Originally Posted by Time Violation View Post
Yup, and what are the chances? I'm not sure there's a number big enough to express them. Btw, I don't think there's proof good enough to satisfy a high priest of atheism like yourself I also don't have a proof there are other civilizations in space, but I do believe it's very likely there are some, and that SETI, the Kepler mission, and the follow up missions are doing the right thing
I don't think you got my point. The probability of getting that exact sequence of cards would be indeed extremely low: and yet it is clearly not impossible to get that exact sequence of cards. But that is really not saying anything special, since any other given sequence would be equally improbable, yet true.

The same can be applied to the universe. The universe has a set of values, and it could have another set of values. No matter how the universe would be, we could say the chances of getting that exact same universe with those exact values would be extremely low.

As to aliens, we have no proof they exist of course, but believing they might exist is certainly more grounded than believing in God. We know life exists in the universe, and it is conceivable that if life exists once, it might exist more times.

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Armstrong says in-competition testing will never catch anyone, only out-of-competition testing and the blood passport can.

Tennis has no blood passport system, and does basically no out of competition testing.

The methods and drugs used by Armstrong in 1999 would work in tennis right now, with zero chance of being caught (not slightly surprising to anyone familiar with the topic, btw).

Last edited by Har-Tru; 06-19-2013 at 09:55 PM.
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post #224 of 297 (permalink) Old 06-19-2013, 05:34 PM
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Re: Just curious...what religion are you?

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Originally Posted by viva-rafa View Post
Just read again what you have written. If you can't prove something doesn't exist, what does it mean in reverse? It means that what you are trying to disprove actually exists. If it didn't exist you would have proven its non-existence. After all it's easier to prove that something doesn't exist.

And by the same token, should we accept that something doesn't exist because some people say so without any proof of its non-existence?
Possibly the most nonsensical post in the history of this forum. I don't even know where to begin...

The Flying Spaghetti Monster exists. He is the God of Gods, above all other silly gods like Yahweh and Allah. Can you prove he doesn't exist? Well then, by your logic he does exist.

Also how on earth is it easier to prove something doesn't exist? Proving the non-existence of something is not only hard, it is, with the only exception of logical contradictions, impossible.

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Originally Posted by philosophicalarf View Post
Armstrong says in-competition testing will never catch anyone, only out-of-competition testing and the blood passport can.

Tennis has no blood passport system, and does basically no out of competition testing.

The methods and drugs used by Armstrong in 1999 would work in tennis right now, with zero chance of being caught (not slightly surprising to anyone familiar with the topic, btw).

Last edited by Har-Tru; 06-19-2013 at 09:54 PM.
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post #225 of 297 (permalink) Old 06-19-2013, 06:34 PM
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Re: Just curious...what religion are you?

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Originally Posted by Echoes View Post
OK. No time to discuss it thoroughly but it's interesting. But I mean if you're right, that means the "official Islam" is wrong, doesn't it? If the Sunnis are right, then the Shiites are wrong, aren't they?
There is not thing as ''official Islam'', there is only Quran, and Sunnis belive what Quran says. Shias interpreted wrongly some parts of the book.
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