Do You Believe In A "God"? - Page 31 - MensTennisForums.com
View Poll Results: Do You Believe In A "God"?
Yes, I'm a Theist (Believe in holy revelation via a "Holy Book") 58 19.14%
Yes, I'm a Deist (Believe in God based upon the existence of the Universe and evolved life) 41 13.53%
Perhaps, I'm Agnostic (As there is conflicting, or a lack of, evidence you just don't know) 77 25.41%
No, I'm an Atheist (science will eventually understand the origins of the Big Bang/Universe) 127 41.91%
Voters: 303. You may not vote on this poll

 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #451 of 774 (permalink) Old 10-21-2009, 10:18 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,595
                     
Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

There's this site that is interesting http://www.closertotruth.com ,there are various well known scientists and theologists talking on many subjects .
Elena. is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #452 of 774 (permalink) Old 10-21-2009, 10:36 PM
-PREMIUM MEMBER-
 
habibko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 31
Posts: 20,060
                     
Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clydey View Post
The universe having always existed is more plausible than the notion of a divine entity, which has no evidence at all to support it. We know a universe exists. We live in it. We do not know that a deity exists. Not only do we not know whether there is a God, there is also nothing to suggest that there is one. The world operates exactly as it would if there was no God watching over us.

To put it simply, it's more logical to believe that something we know to exist has always been, as opposed to believing that something we do not know exists has always been. Also, we are expected to believe that God is some sort of supreme being. Every species on earth is the product of evolution. The universe isn't the product of billions of years of evolution. The universe was here before us. It's completely irrational to believe that there is some sort of divine species in the sky that is outside of evolution. It's more logical to believe that the universe, which we know was here before us, has always been.
there is nothing logical in anything you said here.

there are axioms that can't be argued against according to logic or any other standard, for example "a whole is bigger than a part of it", or "things that equal one thing are all equal" or "something can't come from nothing".

now what you propose as "more plausible" is exactly that, you choose to believe that the universe always existed and/or it was created out of nothing, both are extremely illogical propositions.

if there is no evidence to support the existence of God, then there is equally no evidence to support that the universe ALWAYS existed, why choose one over the other when both are equally illogical?

you are contradicting yourself, you say that your God is logic and reason, yet you choose to grasp at anything no matter how illogical it is as long as it denies an existence of a God.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Federer View Post
“The goal, when I took my break of six months, was doing this for the next couple years, not just for one tournament, I understand people who say, ‘Oh, this would be a perfect moment to go.’ But I feel like I’ve put in so much work, and I love it so much, and I still have so much in the tank.”
habibko is offline  
post #453 of 774 (permalink) Old 10-21-2009, 10:41 PM
Registered User
 
Jimnik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Here
Posts: 20,932
                     
Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

It's interesting how MTF debates on religion seem much more heated than debates on politics.
Jimnik is offline  
post #454 of 774 (permalink) Old 10-21-2009, 10:47 PM
-PREMIUM MEMBER-
 
habibko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 31
Posts: 20,060
                     
Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

the existence of God or in more simple terms "an entity responsible for creation of life" makes more sense simply with the proof of the existence of life itself.

if every species on Earth is a product of evolution, then what did "life" itself evolve from? we all know that the natural state of everything in our universe is "Lifelessness", so how did life bring itself to existence?

it is more plausible to believe that there was a certain force/energy/entity responsible for the existence and creation of life, rather than believing that this life suddenly came out of nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Federer View Post
“The goal, when I took my break of six months, was doing this for the next couple years, not just for one tournament, I understand people who say, ‘Oh, this would be a perfect moment to go.’ But I feel like I’ve put in so much work, and I love it so much, and I still have so much in the tank.”
habibko is offline  
post #455 of 774 (permalink) Old 10-21-2009, 10:51 PM
Registered User
 
Jimnik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Here
Posts: 20,932
                     
Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

There will always be room for religion. Science will never explain everything.
Jimnik is offline  
post #456 of 774 (permalink) Old 10-21-2009, 11:21 PM
Banned!
 
GlennMirnyi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: I'm in Porto Alegre, bitch!
Posts: 42,099
                     
Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimnik View Post
There will always be room for religion. Science will never explain everything.
One can see from miles and miles that you're not a man of the sciences.
GlennMirnyi is offline  
post #457 of 774 (permalink) Old 10-21-2009, 11:36 PM
Registered User
 
Voo de Mar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: somewhere between Fire and Water
Posts: 20,207
                     
Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimnik View Post
Science will never explain everything.
Agree.

stroke <- point <- game <- set <- MATCH -> round -> tournament -> season -> career
My favorite stats
Longest matches
Match points
Tie-breaks
Aces

Chiquita bananas ECC Antwerp
Voo de Mar is offline  
post #458 of 774 (permalink) Old 10-22-2009, 12:04 AM
Registered User
 
Midnight Ninja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Bombay
Age: 30
Posts: 1,023
                     
Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

While I'm a non-believer myself, there seems to be one aspect which all the science apologists seem to be forgetting: Most proofs are backed by theories and assumptions. Nothing is absolute.
Midnight Ninja is offline  
post #459 of 774 (permalink) Old 10-22-2009, 01:33 AM
Banned!
 
GlennMirnyi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: I'm in Porto Alegre, bitch!
Posts: 42,099
                     
Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Midnight Ninja View Post
While I'm a non-believer myself, there seems to be one aspect which all the science apologists seem to be forgetting: Most proofs are backed by theories and assumptions. Nothing is absolute.
Bullshit.

Science by definition demands proof of every theory.

Don't talk about what you don't know.
GlennMirnyi is offline  
post #460 of 774 (permalink) Old 10-22-2009, 02:25 AM
Registered User
 
Clydey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Age: 35
Posts: 13,308
                     
Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by habibko View Post
there is nothing logical in anything you said here.

there are axioms that can't be argued against according to logic or any other standard, for example "a whole is bigger than a part of it", or "things that equal one thing are all equal" or "something can't come from nothing".

now what you propose as "more plausible" is exactly that, you choose to believe that the universe always existed and/or it was created out of nothing, both are extremely illogical propositions.

if there is no evidence to support the existence of God, then there is equally no evidence to support that the universe ALWAYS existed, why choose one over the other when both are equally illogical?

you are contradicting yourself, you say that your God is logic and reason, yet you choose to grasp at anything no matter how illogical it is as long as it denies an existence of a God.
I didn't say that the universe was created out of nothing. It is my view that is has always been here. Congratulations on missing the point, though. Read carefully before responding because you're trying my patience.

We know the universe exists. We do not know that God exists. On the contrary, there is nothing to suggest that a deity of any sort exists. That alone tells you that it is more plausible that the universe has always existed, as opposed to what you are suggesting. You are proposing that God is the first cause. Your first hurdle is in proving that there actually is a God. I don't have that problem. I don't have to prove that the universe exists. You cannot even define God, nor give me any specifics, let alone prove that one exists.

'Nous nous tournons vers l’Écosse pour trouver toutes nos idées sur la civilisation' - Voltaire
Clydey is offline  
post #461 of 774 (permalink) Old 10-22-2009, 02:36 AM
Registered User
 
Clydey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Age: 35
Posts: 13,308
                     
Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by habibko View Post
the existence of God or in more simple terms "an entity responsible for creation of life" makes more sense simply with the proof of the existence of life itself.

if every species on Earth is a product of evolution, then what did "life" itself evolve from? we all know that the natural state of everything in our universe is "Lifelessness", so how did life bring itself to existence?

it is more plausible to believe that there was a certain force/energy/entity responsible for the existence and creation of life, rather than believing that this life suddenly came out of nothing.
There is no "if". We are the product of evolution. End of story. And don't discuss things you know nothing about. You are confusing evolution with abiogenesis. Read up on abiogenesis and educate yourself a little.

This is what bugs me. You look to supernatural explanations before you have even explored the science behind how life on earth began. Rather than inconvenience yourself by reading a few books, you barge into this thread and go, "God did it lol!"

There are natural explanations. Is it too much to ask that you look them up before attributing life on earth to the will of your sugardaddy in the sky?

'Nous nous tournons vers l’Écosse pour trouver toutes nos idées sur la civilisation' - Voltaire
Clydey is offline  
post #462 of 774 (permalink) Old 10-22-2009, 02:40 AM
Registered User
 
Clydey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Age: 35
Posts: 13,308
                     
Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Midnight Ninja View Post
While I'm a non-believer myself, there seems to be one aspect which all the science apologists seem to be forgetting: Most proofs are backed by theories and assumptions. Nothing is absolute.
I'll echo what Gu said.

Also, don't confuse a "theory" with a "scientific theory". They are two different things.

'Nous nous tournons vers l’Écosse pour trouver toutes nos idées sur la civilisation' - Voltaire
Clydey is offline  
post #463 of 774 (permalink) Old 10-22-2009, 02:44 AM
-PREMIUM MEMBER-
 
habibko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 31
Posts: 20,060
                     
Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clydey View Post
I didn't say that the universe was created out of nothing. It is my view that is has always been here. Congratulations on missing the point, though. Read carefully before responding because you're trying my patience.

We know the universe exists. We do not know that God exists. On the contrary, there is nothing to suggest that a deity of any sort exists. That alone tells you that it is more plausible that the universe has always existed, as opposed to what you are suggesting. You are proposing that God is the first cause. Your first hurdle is in proving that there actually is a God. I don't have that problem. I don't have to prove that the universe exists. You cannot even define God, nor give me any specifics, let alone prove that one exists.
how can the universe be eternal? is that logical?

and if you know enough about the universe, things are't the way they are haphazardly, everything about life and our world is so delicately and optimally designed to serve its purposes, how could all of this have just "always existed", is that what your God "logic and reason" tells you?

certainly not, that is not an answer, that's another blind faith.

this complexity and systematic design suggests a mastermind behind it, you don't find a pot or a mobile phone in the desert and scream: "oh look, the product of millions of years of pure chance" or "look, this has always existed", you know someone made it, it's only logical, why dismiss this logic about a much more complex creation like the world and the universe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Federer View Post
“The goal, when I took my break of six months, was doing this for the next couple years, not just for one tournament, I understand people who say, ‘Oh, this would be a perfect moment to go.’ But I feel like I’ve put in so much work, and I love it so much, and I still have so much in the tank.”

Last edited by habibko; 10-22-2009 at 02:54 AM.
habibko is offline  
post #464 of 774 (permalink) Old 10-22-2009, 02:52 AM
-PREMIUM MEMBER-
 
habibko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 31
Posts: 20,060
                     
Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clydey View Post
There is no "if". We are the product of evolution. End of story. And don't discuss things you know nothing about. You are confusing evolution with abiogenesis. Read up on abiogenesis and educate yourself a little.

This is what bugs me. You look to supernatural explanations before you have even explored the science behind how life on earth began. Rather than inconvenience yourself by reading a few books, you barge into this thread and go, "God did it lol!"

There are natural explanations. Is it too much to ask that you look them up before attributing life on earth to the will of your sugardaddy in the sky?
lol thanks and no need for the condescending tone, what about abiogenesis? did they reach any solid conclusions or found answers? no they didn't, there is still no explanation of how life came up from inanimate objects, therefore there is no point to push cool words like that in my face, since it proves nothing for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Federer View Post
“The goal, when I took my break of six months, was doing this for the next couple years, not just for one tournament, I understand people who say, ‘Oh, this would be a perfect moment to go.’ But I feel like I’ve put in so much work, and I love it so much, and I still have so much in the tank.”
habibko is offline  
post #465 of 774 (permalink) Old 10-22-2009, 03:02 AM
Registered User
 
Clydey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Age: 35
Posts: 13,308
                     
Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by habibko View Post
how can the universe be eternal? is that logical?

and if you know enough about the universe, things are't the way they are haphazardly, everything about life and our world is so delicately and optimally designed to serve it's purposes, how could all of this have just "always existed", is that what your God "logic and reason" tells you?

certainly not, that is not an answer, that's another blind faith.

this complexity and systematic design suggests a mastermind behind it, you don't find a pot or a mobile phone in the desert and scream: "oh look, the product of millions of years of pure chance" or "look, this has always existed", you know someone made it, it's only logical, why dismiss this logic about a much more complex creation like the world and the universe?
Wow, you really have no clue as to what you're talking about. So evolution is pure, random chance now? We did evolve. You need to educate yourself before you take part in these discussions. You know nothing about the subject, nor do you know anything about the mountain of evidence that supports the theory of evolution.

We evolved because the conditions on earth happen to allow for it, not because God fine tuned the conditions. Why didn't God allow for the other planets to produce life? Why didn't he fine tune those, too? Ours is the only planet we know of that has the conditions to allow for life to evolve.

Also, if God created the universe and everything in it, he did a really shitty job. Idiotic creationists like to point to the eye as the pinnacle of God's design. Do you have any idea how poorly the eye was designed, considering that God is infallible?

And your final paragraph doesn't even deserve a response. It is an old creationist argument and it has had the shit kicked out of it so many times that I'm embarrassed that you even mentioned it.

'Nous nous tournons vers l’Écosse pour trouver toutes nos idées sur la civilisation' - Voltaire
Clydey is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the MensTennisForums.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome