Johnny Groove's Top 69 Players Ever (Djokovic #11 of all time, Wawrinka #56) - Page 72 - MensTennisForums.com
View Poll Results: How accurate was I?
5/5- Almost 100% spot on, Mr. Groove. I may switch a few around here or there, but good work 68 18.58%
4/5- More or less. I disagree with a few, but not bad at all 154 42.08%
3/5- Hmmmm, I dunno. Some look a bit dicey, mate 53 14.48%
2/5- Are you nuts? Why is X player in Y position? You are completely dissing Z player! 19 5.19%
1/5- Are you high and or drunk? WTF?!?!?! 72 19.67%
Voters: 366. You may not vote on this poll

 
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post #1066 of 1782 (permalink) Old 09-27-2012, 10:41 AM
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Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 players ever (Murray one slam away from making l

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Originally Posted by saviopr View Post
Nadal has two. It's really hard to say who has more achievements today. I dont see a remarkable achievement from Borg to stay ahead Nadal. So, for me another major gives Nadal the number 8 in the list.
For me, Borg is way ahead of Nadal because of his big performances on carpet, a surface where Nadal hasn't even had to play on.

Besides, Borg went a lot to the net in his time.

Finally, the fact that he didn't win the US Open and Nadal did is mostly related to chance in my eyes. Borg was at least as good as Nadal on hardcourts.

I would have put Borg higher in Johnny's list by the way.

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post #1067 of 1782 (permalink) Old 09-27-2012, 01:19 PM
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Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 players ever (Murray one slam away from making l

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Originally Posted by jjc225 View Post
Connors also has most lifetime wins (1243), a number that will likely not be reached by another player anytime soon. Federer at 868 wins is not going to catch him. So quite an accomplishment. And I believe Lendl is second in total wins. So for me, Connors and Lendl are 1 and 2. Forget winning percentage, although Lendl's is very high.
So you're giving the same weight to grand slam and neighbourhood tournament wins?
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post #1068 of 1782 (permalink) Old 09-27-2012, 02:41 PM
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Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 players ever (Murray one slam away from making l

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Originally Posted by Sophocles View Post
Thrust makes a good case for Rosewall's Top 5 status but it's hard to put him Top 2 simply because however much he achieved, he never had a sustained period of domination.
Well 3 years at #1 and I believe another 2 years as joint #1, against several all-time great players, is pretty close to 5 years at #1. As of now, Federer had 5 years at #1, Sampras has 6. The ranking system is much different today, so who knows?
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post #1069 of 1782 (permalink) Old 09-27-2012, 02:59 PM
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Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time (a history lesson)

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LOL, you know it's true, Fed din't have to play anyone really good to win it, a vulture major if ever there was one.
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post #1070 of 1782 (permalink) Old 09-27-2012, 03:01 PM
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Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 players ever (Murray one slam away from making l

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Originally Posted by piterpol View Post
No estoy de acuerdo!

TOP 30 G.O.A.T CURRENT AT 26 SEPT IS:

1.Roger Federer (SUI):_(17GS, 6MC, 21 MS, N°1: 2004-2007 y 2009, 237 semanas consecutivas como N°1 (record), record indiscutido de 290 semanas #1, record mismo GS era open 7 WB (empatado con Nadal y Sampras), Ganador GS carrera 2009, 5 Wimbledon consecutivos (2003-2007), 5 US Open consecutivos (2004-2008), 17 Grand Slam (record), 10 finales consecutivas de GS (record), 23 semifinales consecutivas de GS (record), record vigente de 33 cuartos de final consecutivos en GS, maximo rival: Nadal)

2.Rod Laver (AUS):_ (11GS, 8PS, N°1: 1965-1969, co-numero 1 en 1964 y 1970, Ganador GS amateur 1962, Ganador del Pro Slam en 1967 y único ganador GS era open 1969, 30 de 34 finales de majors entre 1960 y 1969, maximo rival: Rosewall)

3.Ken Rosewall (AUS):_(8GS,15PS,5MS, N°1: 1961-1963, co-numero 1 en 1960,1964 y 1970, jugador con mas Majors de la historia (23), Ganador del Pro Slam en 1963, 26 años como top20, 20 como top10, 12 años como top3, 7 French Pro consecutivos (1960-1966), 6 majors en clay, 8 majors en cesped, 9 majors e indoos, record: mayor diferencia de años entre su primer y último GS (19 años) maximo rival: Laver)

4.Pete Sampras (USA):_(14GS,5MC,11MS, N°1: 1993-1998, 4 Wimbledon consecutivos(1997-2000), 286 semanas totales como #1 (2° detrás de federer), record mismo GS era open 7 WB (empatado con Federer y Nadal), mejor % de victorias en finales de GS era open (77,7%; 14/18) empatado con Gonzales en años indiscutido como numero 1 del mundo, maximo rival: Agassi)

5.Bill Tilden (USA):_ (10GS, 4PS, 1HCCC, 16MS, N°1: 1920-1921,1923-1925, 1931, co-numero 1 en 1922, 6 US Open consecutivos (1920-1925), 7 Copa Davis, record de 95 victorias consecutivas, 8 GS consecutivos (6 USO + 2WB), reconocido indiscutidamente como el mejor tenista de la primera mitad del siglo XX; maximo rival: Johnston, y en profesionales: Cochet, Lacoste, Budge, Vines, Nusslein, Perry)

6.Pancho Gonzales (USA):_ (2GS,12PS, 7MS, N°1:1954-1959, co-numero 1 en 1952 y 1960, 7 US Pro consecutivos (1953-1959), record de 6 años como #1 del mundo indiscutido, record de 8 años consecutivos como #1 (2 años como co-#1), reconocido unanimemente como el mejor tenista de la era profesional pre-open, máximo rival: Segura, Hoad, Trabert, Sedgman no hay uno en particular)

7.Bjorn Borg (SUE):_ (11GS,2MC,15MS, N°1: 1978-1980, co-numero 1 en 1977, 5 Wimbledon consecutivos (1976-1980), 3 (RG+ WB) consecutivos 1978-1980, mejor % victorias era open (82,7%) y en torneos GS (89,8%), unico jugador en ganar 3 GS sin perder sets (2RG+WB), mejor % de victorias al llegar a un quinto set, mejor % de victorias sobre top-10 (70,5%, 67-28), maximo rival: McEnroe)

8.Don Budge (USA):_(6GS, 4PS, 6MS, N°1: 1938-1940, 1942, (co-numero 1 en 1937), primer Ganador en ganar el Grand Slam en 1938 ( record junto a Laver), Ganador del PS de carrera en 1940, 6 GS consecutivos, 9 Majors consecutivos (6GS+3PS 1938-1940), mayor cantidad de victorias consecutivas en GS (37 victorias))

9.Rafael Nadal (ESP):_ (11GS,0MC,21MS,1JJOO 2008, 3 CD, N°1: 2008 y 2010, 7 Roland Garros (record era open junto a Sampras y Federer en un mismo GS), 4 RG consecutivos (2005-2008), Ganador GS de carrera mas joven era open (2010), record: ganador de 3 GS consecutivos en 3 superficies distintas (2010), 81 victorias consecutivas en arcilla mejor record masculino era open en una superficie)

10.Ivan Lendl (USA):_ (8GS,5MC,22MS,N°1:1985-1987, mayor cantidad de finales perdidas en GS (11), record finales consecutivas en MC(9) y USO (8), unico jugador en la era open en tener por lo menos 28 titulos en 3 superficies distintas (clay, carpeta y hard), mejor racha de partidos en carpeta con 66 (empatado con Mcenroe)

11.Jimmy Connors (USA):_(8GS,1MC,17MS, N°1:1974,1976,1982, 3 US Open en 3 superficies distintas (clay americano, pasto y clay), mayor cantidad de titulos y victorias era open 109 y 1242 respectivamente)

12.André Agassi (USA):_(8GS,1MC,17MS,1JJOO 1996, N°1: 1999, Ganador de GS carrera 1999, unico jugador era open en ganar todos los titulos importantes, jugador mas viejo en retomar el N°1 en la era open a los 33 años)

13.John McEnroe (USA):_ (7GS,3MC,19MS,N°1:1981,1983-1984, Mejor temporada era open 82-3, mejor racha de partidos en carpeta con 66 (empatado con Lendl))

14.Roy Emerson (AUS):_ (12GS, 8 Copa Davis, alcanzó el N°1 en 1964, máximo ganador del AO en 6 ocasiones, 5 seguidas (1963-1967), 3° racha mas larga de la historia: 55 partidos consecutivos)

15.Fred Perry (ING):_(8GS,2PS,3MS,N°1: 1935-1937 y 1941, (1934 numero 1 indiscutido), primer jugador en ganar los 4 Grand Slam (Ganador de GS carrera 1935), primer jugador en lograrlo)

16.Boris Becker (ALE):_(6GS,3MC,13MS, alcanzó N°1 en 1991, Jugador mas joven en ganar Wimbledon a los 17 años)

17.Henry Cochet (FRA):_ (7GS,1PS, 1WHCC,2WCCh, 17MS, JJOO: Plata 1924, N°1: 1928-1930, Ganador de 6 Copa Davis con Francia, nunca jugó AO)

18.Lawrence Doherty (ING):_ (6GS,JJOO: 1900, N°1: 1903-1906, co-numero 1 en 1902, 4 Copa Davis (1903-1906), 5 Wimbledon consecutivos (1902-1906), Mejor año 1903 (ganó todos los majors importantes), durante su carrera RG lo disputaban solo franceses, y el AO comenzó recién en 1905)

19.Ellsworth Vines (USA):_ (3GS, 5PS, N°1: 1932, co-numero 1 en 1935-1937, venció en finales de Majors a Tilden, Perry, Cochet, solo perdió 2 finales contra Budge (Crawford (WB en 1933) y French Pro 1939)

20.Stefan Edberg (SUE):_(6GS,1MC,8MS, 1JJOO 1984, N°1:1990-1991, Quedó a 1 set de lograr el GS de carrera (perdió RG 1989 con Chang) y lograr el hito de Agassi)

21.Jack Kramer (USA):_ (3GS, 2PS, N°1: 1948,1949,1951 y 1953, co-numero 1 del mundo en 1950 y 1952)

22.Mats Wilander (SUE):_(7GS,0MC, 8MS,N°1: 1988, 1 de 6 jugadores en ganar 3 GS en una misma temporada en la era open)

23.Bobby Riggs (USA):_ (3GS,3PS,N°1: en el período de la SGM (1943-1945) y 1946, Mejor jugador de la década de los ´40 junto a Budge)

24.Tony Wilding (NZL):_ (6GS,5MS,1WCCH,1WCCC,N°1: 1913, co-numero 1 en 1911 y 1912, 4 Wimbledon consecutivos (1910-1913), mejor Neozelandés de la historia)

25.Lew Hoad (AUS):_ (4GS, 1 PS, alcanzó el numero 1 del mundo en 1956, 1 de 4 jugadores en ganar los primeros 3 GS de la temporada (AO+RG+WB) en 1956 ( con Budge, Laver y Crawford), perdió 7 finales de Pro Slam todas contra Gonzales y Rosewall en 6/7, donde ambos fueron # 1 indiscutidos)

26.Novak Djokovic (SERB):_ (5GS,1MC,11MS,1JJOO,1CD, N°1: 2011, 3 AO, 3 GS y 5 MS en 2011, 43 partidos ganados consecutivos, 27 partidos consecutivos ganados en GS consecutivos (WB2011-RG2012 empatado con Federer)

27.John Newcombe (AUS):_ (7GS,4CD, fue co-número 1 del mundo en 1970-1971, 3 WB, 2 USO Y 2 AO)

28.René Lacoste (FRA):_ (7GS,N°1: 1926 Y 1927, 3 RG, 2 WB, 2 USO y 2 CD, venció en finales de Majors a Tilden y Cochet)

29.Williams Renshaw (ING):_ (7GS,N°1:1881-1886, ganador de 6 Wimbledon seguidos (1881-1886); 7 Wimbledon (empatado con Federer y Sampras), el último GS en 1889)

30.Jack Crawford (AUS):_ (6GS, N°1: 1933, 3 GS en 1933, estuvo a 1 set de ganar el GS ese año, durante 73 años fue record de finales consecutivas de GS con 7, superado por Federer el 2007)
me likes your list
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post #1071 of 1782 (permalink) Old 09-27-2012, 03:08 PM
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Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 players ever (Murray one slam away from making l

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Well 3 years at #1 and I believe another 2 years as joint #1, against several all-time great players, is pretty close to 5 years at #1. As of now, Federer had 5 years at #1, Sampras has 6. The ranking system is much different today, so who knows?
I think Groove could use the definition of number 1 of whole year just with pre open era players, when there was not a reliable ranking. Nowadays the better choice is the number of weeks. For instance, who sees Sampras 6 years as number 1 think he had more time at this position than Federer, with his 5 years, but most of us know Federer was more dominant in his 5 years than Sampras in his 6 years.
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post #1072 of 1782 (permalink) Old 09-27-2012, 11:09 PM
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Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time (a history lesson)

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What, who did he beat, a low seeded unproven Soderling at the time, Soderling did not beat Rafa there, Rafa was injured, and Del Po who was also unproven at that level at the time, that match probably gave Del Po the confidence and experience he needed to beat him at the US, but he wasn't ready to do it at the French, so there was no way Fed wasn't going to win it unless Rafa was there.

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post #1073 of 1782 (permalink) Old 09-27-2012, 11:20 PM
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Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time (a history lesson)

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What, who did he beat, a low seeded unproven Soderling at the time, Soderling did not beat Rafa there, Rafa was injured, and Del Po who was also unproven at that level at the time, that match probably gave Del Po the confidence and experience he needed to beat him at the US, but he wasn't ready to do it at the French, so there was no way Fed wasn't going to win it unless Rafa was there.
Nadal was so injured he was running everything down as usual.

Soderling was the man and won fair and square. Went for his shots and made about 99% of them.

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post #1074 of 1782 (permalink) Old 09-27-2012, 11:22 PM
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Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time (a history lesson)

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Nadal was so injured he was running everything down as usual.

Soderling was the man and won fair and square. Went for his shots and made about 99% of them.
Nice try, but he was injured.

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post #1075 of 1782 (permalink) Old 09-27-2012, 11:23 PM
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Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time (a history lesson)

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Nice try, but he was injured.
His parents' divorce injured him yeah.

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post #1076 of 1782 (permalink) Old 09-27-2012, 11:25 PM
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Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time (a history lesson)

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His parents' divorce injured him yeah.
I think they divorced the next year, heh.

He was injured, you know because he lost there and he never loses there when healthy.

Another reason he was injured was the fact that Fed had Sod for dinner in the next match, if Rafa was healthy he would have too.

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post #1077 of 1782 (permalink) Old 09-27-2012, 11:35 PM
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Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time (a history lesson)

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I think they divorced the next year, heh.

He was injured, you know because he lost there and he never loses there when healthy.

Another reason he was injured was the fact that Fed had Sod for dinner in the next match, if Rafa was healthy he would have too.
That last sentence is a lot to do with match-up rather than anything else. Federer is a worse match up. Soderling can hit through Nadal on a good day and there's nothing the Spaniard could do about it, but Fed's variety can negate Soderling's strengths.

He never loses anywhere when healthy, the whole act is tedious and the main reason I'm not missing him on tour one bit.

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post #1078 of 1782 (permalink) Old 09-27-2012, 11:36 PM
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Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time (a history lesson)

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That last sentence is a lot to do with match-up rather than anything else. Federer is a worse match up. Soderling can hit through Nadal on a good day and there's nothing the Spaniard could do about it, but Fed's variety can negate Soderling's strengths.

He never loses anywhere when healthy, the whole act is tedious and the main reason I'm not missing him on tour one bit.
It's not an act, it's well documented that he has had knee and foot problems for pretty much his whole career, and for you to say otherwise is just low.

IIRC he didn't look good in the Soderling match.

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Last edited by Transcender; 09-27-2012 at 11:43 PM.
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post #1079 of 1782 (permalink) Old 09-27-2012, 11:41 PM
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Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time (a history lesson)

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It's not an act, it's well documented that he has had knee and foot problems for pretty much his whole career, and for you to say otherwise is just low.

IIRC he didn't look good in the Soderling match.
Every loss is blamed on an injury when it's his physical style of play that is the root cause. If anything was wrong that day it was the unusual amount of short balls he left, not his movement.

Anyway this convo's about the top 55 all time and open era so best stick to it.

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post #1080 of 1782 (permalink) Old 09-27-2012, 11:43 PM
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Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time (a history lesson)

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Every loss is blamed on an injury when it's his physical style of play that is the root cause. If anything was wrong that day it was the unusual amount of short balls he left, not his movement.

Anyway this convo's about the top 55 all time and open era so best stick to it.
Anyway, your argument doesn't work cause what happened the next 2 times they met at the French when Rafa was healthy, oh yeah, Rafa won in straights, cya.

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