Johnny Groove's Top 69 Players Ever (Djokovic #11 of all time, Wawrinka #56) - Page 26 - MensTennisForums.com

View Poll Results: How accurate was I?
5/5- Almost 100% spot on, Mr. Groove. I may switch a few around here or there, but good work 68 18.43%
4/5- More or less. I disagree with a few, but not bad at all 154 41.73%
3/5- Hmmmm, I dunno. Some look a bit dicey, mate 53 14.36%
2/5- Are you nuts? Why is X player in Y position? You are completely dissing Z player! 19 5.15%
1/5- Are you high and or drunk? WTF?!?!?! 75 20.33%
Voters: 369. You may not vote on this poll

 
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post #376 of 1787 (permalink) Old 01-02-2012, 04:34 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time (Djokovic up to #31)

As for what can make Federer pass Laver?

If Federer wins Roland Garros, beating Nadal en route, he is the GOAT in my eyes.

If he wins RG w/o beating Nadal, then the argument with Fed and Laver continues, but Fed would be closer. If Fed wins 2 slams this year, let's say RG and Wimbledon, he'll be at 18 slams, 2 career slams, and all of his other records. If he gets back to #1 with his RG and Wimbledon titles and ends the year at #1, I will give the #1 all time title to Federer.

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Originally Posted by Novak Djokovic
Obviously, you play a lot of mind games with yourself, but it is important to always believe that you can play your best, perform your best, and in the end, your convictions are stronger than your doubts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
If I took the time to respond to every criticism that came across my desk, there would be no time for constructive work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humphrey Bogart
The only thing you owe the audience is a good performance
Quote:
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post #377 of 1787 (permalink) Old 01-02-2012, 04:37 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time (Djokovic up to #31)

However, if Djokovic wins 2 slams and keeps #1 the entire year, he will move up arguably all the way up to #17.

So a lot on the line for all 3 guys in 2012.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Novak Djokovic
Obviously, you play a lot of mind games with yourself, but it is important to always believe that you can play your best, perform your best, and in the end, your convictions are stronger than your doubts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
If I took the time to respond to every criticism that came across my desk, there would be no time for constructive work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humphrey Bogart
The only thing you owe the audience is a good performance
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niccolo Machiavelli
There is nothing more difficult to take in hand, more perilous to conduct, or more uncertain in its success, than to take the lead in the introduction of a new order of things.
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post #378 of 1787 (permalink) Old 01-02-2012, 05:08 PM
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Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time (Djokovic up to #31)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Groove Dude View Post
As for what can make Federer pass Laver?

If Federer wins Roland Garros, beating Nadal en route, he is the GOAT in my eyes.

If he wins RG w/o beating Nadal, then the argument with Fed and Laver continues, but Fed would be closer. If Fed wins 2 slams this year, let's say RG and Wimbledon, he'll be at 18 slams, 2 career slams, and all of his other records. If he gets back to #1 with his RG and Wimbledon titles and ends the year at #1, I will give the #1 all time title to Federer.
dude please tell me why is Laver above Fed?????I really want to know your logic behind that absurd claim
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post #379 of 1787 (permalink) Old 01-02-2012, 05:11 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time (Djokovic up to #31)

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dude please tell me why is Laver above Fed?????I really want to know your logic behind that absurd claim
Are you unable to read?

2 CYGS, 19 slams from 32 finals, 15 straight slam finals, 200 titles across all surfaces, 8 years as #1 or #2 in the world, come on.

Fed is close, and with a great year in 2012, will pass Laver.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Novak Djokovic
Obviously, you play a lot of mind games with yourself, but it is important to always believe that you can play your best, perform your best, and in the end, your convictions are stronger than your doubts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
If I took the time to respond to every criticism that came across my desk, there would be no time for constructive work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humphrey Bogart
The only thing you owe the audience is a good performance
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niccolo Machiavelli
There is nothing more difficult to take in hand, more perilous to conduct, or more uncertain in its success, than to take the lead in the introduction of a new order of things.
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post #380 of 1787 (permalink) Old 01-02-2012, 05:15 PM
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Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time (Djokovic up to #31)

I agree with Saberg, your condition for Fed to become the #1 of all time is out of this planet.
The guy has won 16 slams already and is the 6-time YEC champion, give me a break.
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post #381 of 1787 (permalink) Old 01-02-2012, 05:19 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time (Djokovic up to #31)

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I agree with Saberg, your condition for Fed to become the #1 of all time is out of this planet.
The guy has won 16 slams already and is the 6-time YEC champion, give me a break.
What condition? My condition is Fed's resume must exceed Laver's.

At the same age as Federer currently is, Laver won all 4 slams I think my criteria is very fair.

Laver's numbers speak for themselves. Fed is the only one in the history of the game that has a resume that can nearly match it.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Novak Djokovic
Obviously, you play a lot of mind games with yourself, but it is important to always believe that you can play your best, perform your best, and in the end, your convictions are stronger than your doubts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
If I took the time to respond to every criticism that came across my desk, there would be no time for constructive work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humphrey Bogart
The only thing you owe the audience is a good performance
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niccolo Machiavelli
There is nothing more difficult to take in hand, more perilous to conduct, or more uncertain in its success, than to take the lead in the introduction of a new order of things.
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post #382 of 1787 (permalink) Old 01-02-2012, 05:26 PM
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Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time (Djokovic up to #31)

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At the same age as Federer currently is, Laver won all 4 slams I think my criteria is very fair.
Tennis was less physical in 60's and the fact he was able to win a Calendar Slam in his early 30's speaks for itself about the competition back then.
If it wasn't enough, Lavr won 3/4 slams on ultra fast grass, while Federer has to play on ass-slow courts where his offensive skills make less damage and is forced to compete with fantastic grinders.
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post #383 of 1787 (permalink) Old 01-02-2012, 05:44 PM
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Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time (Djokovic up to #31)

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Laver's numbers speak for themselves. Fed is the only one in the history of the game that has a resume that can nearly match it.
It's unfortunate people cannot realize what a profound compliment this is to Federer, this simple statement.

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post #384 of 1787 (permalink) Old 01-02-2012, 05:46 PM
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Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time (Djokovic up to #31)

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Are you unable to read?

2 CYGS, 19 slams from 32 finals, 15 straight slam finals, 200 titles across all surfaces, 8 years as #1 or #2 in the world, come on.

Fed is close, and with a great year in 2012, will pass Laver.
19 Slams? really ....how many did he win pre open era?Laver is lucky if he is top 5 in my book .....
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post #385 of 1787 (permalink) Old 01-02-2012, 05:49 PM
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Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time (Djokovic up to #31)

This could be pondered as a compliment provided you can put an equal sign between those eras.
Unfortunately, tennis is a completely different sport these days and player like Laver would struggle to hold one service game.
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post #386 of 1787 (permalink) Old 01-02-2012, 05:52 PM
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Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time (Djokovic up to #31)

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This could be pondered as a compliment provided you can put an equal sign between those eras.
Unfortunately, tennis is a completely different sport these days and player like Laver would struggle to hold one service game.
Mere speculation predicated upon ignorance -- the athleticism has increased, the dependence upon racket technology has increased, the skill and class has decreased -- take your pick.

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post #387 of 1787 (permalink) Old 01-02-2012, 05:54 PM
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Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time (Djokovic up to #31)

I loved reading the top 25; It's quite hard to compare of course, and arguments as 'the competition was not as tough back then' are difficult to prove. Moreover, the differences with the amateur and pro tours make it hard to compare.

Where can I read about how these differences came by in a chronological order (f.e. 1950 pro tour started; Wimbledon having double tournaments back then, etc.)? Ty.
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post #388 of 1787 (permalink) Old 01-02-2012, 06:08 PM
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Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time (Djokovic up to #31)

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Mere speculation predicated upon ignorance -- the athleticism has increased, the dependence upon racket technology has increased, the skill and class has decreased -- take your pick.
Say Roger and Laver played in 2006 with Laver at his peak....Roger would win 6-1 6-2 6-1
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post #389 of 1787 (permalink) Old 01-02-2012, 06:10 PM
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Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time (Djokovic up to #31)

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Say Roger and Laver played in 2006 with Laver at his peak....Roger would win 6-1 6-2 6-1
You imagine Laver to play with his wooden racket, aren't you?

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post #390 of 1787 (permalink) Old 01-02-2012, 06:14 PM
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Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time (Djokovic up to #31)

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Lendl and Nadal are very close, clearly. Nadal I think if he gets his 11th slam this year and gets back to #1, It'll be tough for me to keep him behind Lendl, and if he wins 2 slams this year, maybe Rafa leapfrogs Borg as well into the #8 spot.



Not all about slams, mate. Lendl shits on Nadal in tons of other records. However, if Rafa wins the AO, I may have to reconsider.



Hmmm, are you arguing Lew Hoad to be higher than #44 on the list?

Hoad at his best was the greatest, even according to Pancho Gonzales himself. But Hoad was too inconsistent. Back issues, yes, but also some lack of interest in the game, despite huge talent.
Hoad was inconsistent as an amateur before 1958, as he himself admitted, saving his best tennis for the Slam events and Davis Cup. He was often upset in minor tournaments.
After turning pro, he quickly learned the money value of consistency, and won the year-end bonus money for best overall professional record in both 1958 and 1959. He was the first tennis player to earn more then $100,000 a year in tennis play for his first two years on the tour.
He became a part-time player in 1960, and dropped off the 1961 tour with a broken foot. He never again attempted to play a full year.
Should he be higher than #44? He is rated at #1 by Gonzales, Rosewall, Bucholz, Krishnan, Anderson, Emerson, Stolle, Roche, Newcombe, Davidson, Ulrich and many other players who saw or played against him. Enough said.
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