>:-;<! Lets be realistic~~ how many SLAMS should BORG have WON?? Retired at age 25yrs - MensTennisForums.com
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-07-2006, 09:46 AM Thread Starter
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>:-;<! Lets be realistic~~ how many SLAMS should BORG have WON?? Retired at age 25yrs


Just watching the Borg interview with Leconte the other day [which GW posted] & it got me thinking about how Borg really wasted his chance to stamp himself as the GREATEST EVER

Consider the following:
* Won his last slam just after his 25th birthday
* 6-months latter he was unofficially retired
* Lost back-to-back Slam Finals to McEnroe in his final year after leading by a set in each final[Wimby & USO 1981]
* Lost USO final 4-times [he should have beaten Connors in 1976 (it was played on clay)]
* Only played the AO once [1974]~ this is clearly the laziest effort from any of the greats. Even though the AO`s reputation wasn`t so good during the 1970s Borg`s effort of not showing up is disproportionately bad
* Ironically his 1st title came in AUS [Adelaide 1974]~ should have tried his luck at the main event a few more times

Well then~~ if, but, should have, could have ~~ weighing it all up: if Borg had bothered to try his game on the grasscourts Down Under [AO was at Kooyong in those days] & if he`d been slightly more tough mentally at the USO, & if he`d played a few more years past his 25th birthday>>> HOW MANY SLAMS should he have won !!!???

Grand Slam Wins (11)
Year Championship Opponent in Final Score in Final
1974 French Open Manuel Orantes 2-6, 6-7, 6-0, 6-1, 6-1
1975 French Open (2) Guillermo Vilas 6-2, 6-3, 6-4
1976 Wimbledon Ilie Năstase 6-4, 6-2, 9-7
1977 Wimbledon (2) Jimmy Connors 3-6, 6-2, 6-1, 5-7, 6-4
1978 French Open (3) Guillermo Vilas 6-1, 6-1, 6-3
1978 Wimbledon (3) Jimmy Connors 6-2, 6-2, 6-3
1979 French Open (4) Victor Pecci 6-3, 6-1, 6-7, 6-4
1979 Wimbledon (4) Roscoe Tanner 6-7, 6-1, 3-6, 6-3, 6-4
1980 French Open (5) Vitas Gerulaitis 6-4, 6-1, 6-2
1980 Wimbledon (5) John McEnroe 1-6, 7-5, 6-3, 6-7(16), 8-6
1981 French Open (6) Ivan Lendl 6-1, 4-6, 6-2, 3-6, 6-1



Runner-ups (5)
Year Championship Opponent in Final Score in Final
1976 US Open Jimmy Connors 6-4, 3-6, 7-6, 6-4
1978 US Open Jimmy Connors 6-4, 6-2, 6-2
1980 US Open John McEnroe 7-6, 6-1, 6-7, 5-7, 6-4
1981 Wimbledon John McEnroe 4-6, 7-6, 7-6, 6-4
1981 US Open John McEnroe 4-6, 6-2, 6-4, 6-3



Singles titles (61)
1974 (7) - Adelaide, Bastad, Boston, London WCT, French Open, Rome, São Paulo WCT
1975 (5) - Barcelona, Bologna WCT, Boston, Richmond-WCT, French Open
1976 (6) - Boston, Dallas WCT, Dusseldorf, São Paulo WCT, Toronto Indoor WCT, Wimbledon
1977 (11) - Barcelona, Basel, Cologne, Denver, Madrid, Memphis, Monte Carlo WCT, Nice, Pepsi Grand Slam, Wembley, Wimbledon
1978 (9) - Bastad, Birmingham WCT, Las Vegas, Milan WCT, Pepsi Grand Slam, French Open, Rome, Tokyo Indoor, Wimbledon
1979 (12) - Bastad, Las Vegas, Masters, Monte Carlo, Montreal / Toronto, Palermo, Pepsi Grand Slam, Richmond WCT, French Open, Rotterdam, Tokyo Indoor, Wimbledon
1980 (8) - Las Vegas, Masters, Monte Carlo, Nice, Pepsi Grand Slam, French Open, Stockholm, Wimbledon
1981 (3) - Geneva, French Open, Stuttgart Outdoor
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-07-2006, 09:48 AM
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Re: >:-;<! Lets be realistic~~ how many SLAMS SHOULD BORG have WON?? Retired at age 25yrs

1000

On Nadal bumping him on the changeover, Rosol said: "It's ok, he wanted to take my concentration; I knew he would try something".


Wilander on Dimitrov - "He has mind set on imitating Federer and yes it looks good. But he has no idea what to do on the court".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-07-2006, 09:51 AM Thread Starter
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Re: >:-;<! Lets be realistic~~ how many SLAMS SHOULD BORG have WON?? Retired at age 25yrs

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Originally Posted by GeorgeWHitler View Post
1000

That`s the number I had in mind too
...
Did you use some kind of mathematical formula to calculate the probability of that
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-07-2006, 09:53 AM
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Re: >:-;<! Lets be realistic~~ how many SLAMS SHOULD BORG have WON?? Retired at age 25yrs

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Originally Posted by CmonAussie View Post

That`s the number I had in mind too
...
Did you use some kind of mathematical formula to calculate the probability of that
It was the 1st number I came up with, but don't forget Gasquet is meant to 1001.

Borg won enough Slams, there were more than enough reasons as to why he retired when he did.

On Nadal bumping him on the changeover, Rosol said: "It's ok, he wanted to take my concentration; I knew he would try something".


Wilander on Dimitrov - "He has mind set on imitating Federer and yes it looks good. But he has no idea what to do on the court".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-07-2006, 09:57 AM Thread Starter
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Re: >:-;<! Lets be realistic~~ how many SLAMS SHOULD BORG have WON?? Retired at age 25yrs

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Originally Posted by GeorgeWHitler View Post
It was the 1st number I came up with, but don't forget Gasquet is meant to 1001.

Borg won enough Slams, there were more than enough reasons as to why he retired when he did.
All fair enough .. What I`m saying is that Borg had an opportunity to stamp himself as the greatest ever!!!
I mean Sampras won 14-Slams & he couldn`t do squat on clay, yet Borg had the all round game & could have won atleast another 5-6 slams if he had taken a more professional approach &/or redisciplined himself [a la Agassi]
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-07-2006, 09:58 AM
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Re: >:-;<! Lets be realistic~~ how many SLAMS should BORG have WON?? Retired at age 2

I say he should have won 12 (one of the USO finals ), but no Slam after 1981. He was past it and other guys were hungrier and simply better - Mac, Lendl, the young Swedes, Becker in 1985.


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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-07-2006, 09:59 AM
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Re: >:-;<! Lets be realistic~~ how many SLAMS SHOULD BORG have WON?? Retired at age 25yrs

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Originally Posted by CmonAussie View Post
All fair enough .. What I`m saying is that Borg had an opportunity to stamp himself as the greatest ever!!!
I mean Sampras won 14-Slams & he couldn`t do squat on clay, yet Borg had the all round game & could have won atleast another 5-6 slams if he had taken a more professional approach &/or redisciplined himself [a la Agassi]
Would be, could be, maybes doesn't cut it I am afraid. Well don't you think if he wasn't mentally fried that he would have continued on. Just appreciate what he did and not what he didn't.

On Nadal bumping him on the changeover, Rosol said: "It's ok, he wanted to take my concentration; I knew he would try something".


Wilander on Dimitrov - "He has mind set on imitating Federer and yes it looks good. But he has no idea what to do on the court".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-07-2006, 10:01 AM
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Re: >:-;<! Lets be realistic~~ how many SLAMS should BORG have WON?? Retired at age 25yrs

I have done my calculations, and came up with the following result:

19.6666667 < x < 23.133333333333
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-07-2006, 11:54 AM
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Re: >:-;<! Lets be realistic~~ how many SLAMS should BORG have WON?? Retired at age 25yrs

Borg played 27 and won 11. These are numbers for the eternity.

He's among the serious candidates for the greatest player of all time.
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-07-2006, 01:27 PM
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Re: >:-;<! Lets be realistic~~ how many SLAMS should BORG have WON?? Retired at age 25yrs

he could have easily won several more french opens.
i think his time at wimbledon was probably up.
he would have won the australian open loads of times if he bothered to play it, given that msot of the top players skipped it.
he probably wouldn't have won the US open as he didnt like playing under floodlights
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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-07-2006, 07:38 PM
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Re: >:-;<! Lets be realistic~~ how many SLAMS should BORG have WON?? Retired at age 25yrs

He might have won the French Open once more but that would have been about it. Too many great young players coming up through the ranks (Lendl, Wilander, Becker). Also, I really think that Borg felt a big personal dropoff looming ala what we saw years later with Michael Chang and Jim Courier. Borg's style of play was physically and mentally very tough on him and I think the well had just about run dry. There's a limited life span for that type of counterpunching play.
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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-07-2006, 07:51 PM
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Re: >:-;<! Lets be realistic~~ how many SLAMS should BORG have WON?? Retired at age 2

Borg was done at 25. He wouldn't have won any more GS from then on, Borg could barely win a match from 1982 onwards.

He probably would have won at least a couple of Aus Opens if he had been bothered to go there in his peak years. Connors however only played the event twice I believe, winning once, and didn't go after 1975. Mac missed the event 1979-82 and again in 84, his best year. They may well have added to their GS totals also.

Borg was just not able to win the US Open for some reason. In 1976, Connors had his number and was the better player then. Borg was only 20 and still improving. In the 1977 tourney, Borg retired to Stockton. Connors blew Borg away in the 78 final.

79, Tanner blew him away with the big serve under the floodlights to gain revenge for the Wimbledon final. In 80 and 81, Mac was the young man on the rise and improving, Borg was fighting to keep his hold at the top. They were 1-1 in the big finals 1980. By the time of the 81 US final, Mac was better than Borg on the big occasion and on that surface.

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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-07-2006, 08:54 PM
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Re: >:-;<! Lets be realistic~~ how many SLAMS should BORG have WON?? Retired at age 25yrs

Quote:
Originally Posted by its.like.that View Post
I have done my calculations, and came up with the following result:

19.6666667 < x < 23.133333333333
I got the same thing. I thought it was obvious.
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-30-2006, 02:02 PM
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Re: >:-;<! Lets be realistic~~ how many SLAMS should BORG have WON?? Retired at age 25yrs

If motivated .....he could have won some more titles at the French Open. Can't see Wilander beating a focused Borg in 1982. They met once on clay in the autumn of 1981. (Borgs last tournament before he unofficially retired) Borg won that one 6-1, 6-1
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-09-2007, 04:07 PM
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Re: >:-;<! Lets be realistic~~ how many SLAMS should BORG have WON?? Retired at age 2

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Originally Posted by Dancing Hero View Post
Borg was done at 25. He wouldn't have won any more GS from then on, Borg could barely win a match from 1982 onwards.

He probably would have won at least a couple of Aus Opens if he had been bothered to go there in his peak years. Connors however only played the event twice I believe, winning once, and didn't go after 1975. Mac missed the event 1979-82 and again in 84, his best year. They may well have added to their GS totals also.

Borg was just not able to win the US Open for some reason. In 1976, Connors had his number and was the better player then. Borg was only 20 and still improving. In the 1977 tourney, Borg retired to Stockton. Connors blew Borg away in the 78 final.

79, Tanner blew him away with the big serve under the floodlights to gain revenge for the Wimbledon final. In 80 and 81, Mac was the young man on the rise and improving, Borg was fighting to keep his hold at the top. They were 1-1 in the big finals 1980. By the time of the 81 US final, Mac was better than Borg on the big occasion and on that surface.
It is wonderful that

Vilas could win Connors in Claycourt US Open, but Borg could't (Don't forget Borg was King of the Clay in that time )
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