Tougher Conversion: Clay to Hard, or Hard to Clay? - MensTennisForums.com

View Poll Results: Hard-Clay or Clay-Hard?
Hard to Clay 47 58.75%
Clay to Hard 33 41.25%
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post #1 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-09-2007, 11:30 PM Thread Starter
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Tougher Conversion: Clay to Hard, or Hard to Clay?

Many players grow up on hard courts, many players grow up on clay courts. when they reach the highest level, they must inevitably play on the other. So the question is which is harder to convert to?

Myself, I think that going from hard to clay is harder. It seems that the good hard court players struggle on clay, whereas the clay courters have the ability to win major titles on hard.

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post #2 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-09-2007, 11:33 PM
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Re: Tougher Conversion: Clay to Hard, or Hard to Clay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaze-2004 View Post
Many players grow up on hard courts, many players grow up on clay courts. when they reach the highest level, they must inevitably play on the other. So the question is which is harder to convert to?

Myself, I think that going from hard to clay is harder. It seems that the good hard court players struggle on clay, whereas the clay courters have the ability to win major titles on hard.

I disagree. Most clay courters arent contenders for big titles on hard. For instance Coria and Gaudio dominated on clay but were never considered threats on faster courts. Very few clay courters out there have any chance for a major title on hard courts.
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post #3 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-09-2007, 11:42 PM
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Re: Tougher Conversion: Clay to Hard, or Hard to Clay?

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Originally Posted by IvanLjubicic View Post
I disagree. Most clay courters arent contenders for big titles on hard. For instance Coria and Gaudio dominated on clay but were never considered threats on faster courts. Very few clay courters out there have any chance for a major title on hard courts.
It's not really up for debate in recent times at least, clay courters have done far better on faster surfaces than those who prefer hard courts have transitioned to clay.

The facts speak for themselves. You mention Coria for example, a guy who made the final of Miami Masters. Would we ever see Roddick or Ljubicic in the final of Rome?

Ferrero for example, a King of Clay, but can still go to the US Open final. Would we ever see Roddick in the final of the French? Obviously not.
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post #4 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-09-2007, 11:44 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Tougher Conversion: Clay to Hard, or Hard to Clay?

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Originally Posted by IvanLjubicic View Post
I disagree. Most clay courters arent contenders for big titles on hard. For instance Coria and Gaudio dominated on clay but were never considered threats on faster courts. Very few clay courters out there have any chance for a major title on hard courts.
Gaudio I'll give you. He cant really do much outside clay.

But Coria? Cincy QF in 03, IW QF in 04, Miami FINAL in 04, USO QF in 03, won Basel in 03, beating Ljubo en route, and he beat Moya indoors at the 03 TMC. USO QF in 05, 05 Beijing final, beating Tojo, not a bad hard court resume

and what about Ferrero? or Guga? or Rafa?

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post #5 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-09-2007, 11:46 PM
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Re: Tougher Conversion: Clay to Hard, or Hard to Clay?

Hard to Clay is a tougher transition, for the reasons mentioned above by jayjay.

It seems that the basic properties of clay are true in most, decent speed Hard Courts. A person growing up on clay can transition himslef to hardcourt, just as long as he remembers to try to finish points more quickly, and forget about the sliding.

Pure HC players on the other hand, have to get used to the sliding, which may be complicated. The real problem for HC players is that they are not patient enough to rally every time to win many consecutive points.

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post #6 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-09-2007, 11:59 PM
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Re: Tougher Conversion: Clay to Hard, or Hard to Clay?

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Gaudio I'll give you. He cant really do much outside clay.

But Coria? Cincy QF in 03, IW QF in 04, Miami FINAL in 04, USO QF in 03, won Basel in 03, beating Ljubo en route, and he beat Moya indoors at the 03 TMC. USO QF in 05, 05 Beijing final, beating Tojo, not a bad hard court resume

and what about Ferrero? or Guga? or Rafa?
Those are some good results but Coria was never considered a threat to win a major title. Sure he had a lot of QF, and a SF and F here and there but i doubt many top players so him as a threat on hardcourts.
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post #7 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-10-2007, 12:01 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Tougher Conversion: Clay to Hard, or Hard to Clay?

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Originally Posted by IvanLjubicic View Post
Those are some good results but Coria was never considered a threat to win a major title. Sure he had a lot of QF, and a SF and F here and there but i doubt many top players so him as a threat on hardcourts.
ok, he had decent results on the hard courts. sure, he wasnt a fav. to win the title, but no one thought he'd lose first round.

When we talk about the hard courters, how many of them can boast an RG QF? or a Rome/MC/Hamburg Final?

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Originally Posted by Novak Djokovic
Obviously, you play a lot of mind games with yourself, but it is important to always believe that you can play your best, perform your best, and in the end, your convictions are stronger than your doubts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
If I took the time to respond to every criticism that came across my desk, there would be no time for constructive work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humphrey Bogart
The only thing you owe the audience is a good performance
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Originally Posted by Niccolo Machiavelli
There is nothing more difficult to take in hand, more perilous to conduct, or more uncertain in its success, than to take the lead in the introduction of a new order of things.
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post #8 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-10-2007, 12:02 AM
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Re: Tougher Conversion: Clay to Hard, or Hard to Clay?

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Originally Posted by Blaze-2004 View Post
ok, he had decent results on the hard courts. sure, he wasnt a fav. to win the title, but no one thought he'd lose first round.

When we talk about the hard courters, how many of them can boast an RG QF? or a Rome/MC/Hamburg Final?
Ljubo: RG SF, MC QF, Rome/Hamburg SF
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post #9 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-10-2007, 12:04 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Tougher Conversion: Clay to Hard, or Hard to Clay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IvanLjubicic View Post
Ljubo: RG SF, MC QF, Rome/Hamburg SF
ok, one. Anyone else?

The point is that more clay courters are successful on hard as compared to harders on clay

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Novak Djokovic
Obviously, you play a lot of mind games with yourself, but it is important to always believe that you can play your best, perform your best, and in the end, your convictions are stronger than your doubts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
If I took the time to respond to every criticism that came across my desk, there would be no time for constructive work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humphrey Bogart
The only thing you owe the audience is a good performance
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niccolo Machiavelli
There is nothing more difficult to take in hand, more perilous to conduct, or more uncertain in its success, than to take the lead in the introduction of a new order of things.
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post #10 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-10-2007, 12:06 AM
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Re: Tougher Conversion: Clay to Hard, or Hard to Clay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaze-2004 View Post
ok, one. Anyone else?

The point is that more clay courters are successful on hard as compared to harders on clay

Ok you are probably right but i still feel its easier to turn a hard court player into a decent clay courter than it is to turn a clay court player into a decent hard court player.
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post #11 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-10-2007, 12:44 AM
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Re: Tougher Conversion: Clay to Hard, or Hard to Clay?

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Originally Posted by IvanLjubicic View Post
Ok you are probably right but i still feel its easier to turn a hard court player into a decent clay courter than it is to turn a clay court player into a decent hard court player.
And you think this because....?

Oops, sorry. Didn't mean to hurt you.
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post #12 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-10-2007, 12:51 AM
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Re: Tougher Conversion: Clay to Hard, or Hard to Clay?

I have the opinion that it is easier from clay to hardcourt.

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post #13 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-10-2007, 12:54 AM
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Re: Tougher Conversion: Clay to Hard, or Hard to Clay?

It's hard to make a general rule, as it depends on the player's style and technique. Guys like Guga and Juan Carlos are naturally very aggressive players even on clay, and they tend to stay close to or on top of the baseline. These kinds of qualities are rewarded on hardcourts, as their results show. The passive clay courters who stand far behind the baseline and rely on pure grinding have trouble on the hardcourts, like Coria and Nadal, unless they drastically alter their clay games. But overall I would say it's still easier to make the transition from clay to hard because hardcourts don't require any special kind of movement like clay does. The sliding on clay is an ability that is acquired after many years of playing on the surface exclusively.
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post #14 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-10-2007, 01:14 AM
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Re: Tougher Conversion: Clay to Hard, or Hard to Clay?

Way easier to go from Clay to Hard. It seems that hardcourts are getting slower and slower.

So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle.
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post #15 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-10-2007, 01:28 AM
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Re: Tougher Conversion: Clay to Hard, or Hard to Clay?

Roddick has a SF and 2 (I think) QF at rome.
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