I've never really understood why the ATP chose to make Paris Bercy a Masters event. Sure, it's nice to have a little diversity with the indoor surface, but the World Tour Finals already got that part covered. Paris already has one tennis tournament, though the ATP might have thought that one isn't important enough . Not to mention, Paris ends just one week before the start of the WTF, which means fatigued top players are more likely to skip or tank it. Early November is just a really bad time for another Masters 1000, given that players are usually very tired and need to prepare for a more important tournament. Conversely, it's a very good opportunity for players chasing WTF qualification or the #1 ranking like Murray in 2014 and 2016, but that will only cause fatigue. I remember Murray being gassed at the WTF in 2014, and this year he was just too tired (it seemed) from his efforts to get the #1 ranking in 2016 (that includes winning Bercy).
IMO, it would be a great idea to downgrade Bercy to an ATP 500 event and upgrade one of the grass tournaments that are currently ATP 500 events (Halle or Queens). It would finally give us a grass Masters, which means there are Masters events on all three surfaces. Furthermore, it would help players better prepare for Wimbledon, since Masters draws are generally stronger than ATP 500 draws which means there will be tougher competition. But, most importantly, it would give the players four weeks of well earned rest after Shanghai which is enough to prepare well for the WTF.
Err....no MC, is a great tournament.
If anything, it should be a HC Masters that should be downgraded and yeah, Paris would be the best choice then, I agree. The disadvantage would be that there would be no Indoors TMS anymore then.
It is a funny one I admit, and Paris indoors definitely far from my favourite Masters tournaments.
In fact this is probably the one most people actually gloss over and would usually say replace Madrid or Miami :lol:
Managing masters events between the two closest slams in the calendar has always been a tricky point in terms of sheer organisation. However best make it at Halle as Kei gets injured there for no reason practically every season within the first three rounds of that tournament
However if you were to suggest it, the ATP would have to rectify the grass seeding formula for Wimbledon as having a Masters could give disproportionate leverage relating to grass seeding.
It is a funny one I admit, and Paris indoors definitely far from my favourite Masters tournaments.
In fact this is probably the one most people actually gloss over and would usually say replace Madrid or Miami :lol:
Managing masters events between the two closest slams in the calendar has always been a tricky point in terms of sheer organisation. However best make it at Halle as Kei gets injured there for no reason practically every season within the first three rounds of that tournament
However if you were to suggest it, the ATP would have to rectify the grass seeding formula for Wimbledon as having a Masters could give disproportionate leverage relating to grass seeding.
Yeah, I don't get why Wimbledon has a different seeding formula anyway..maybe they can rectify it by only taking into account the results on grass for the last 12 months. Something like: Total Points = 100% Current Ranking Points + 75% Grass points in the last 12 months, instead of the more complex formula they use right now.
I'd support this. I've been to Bercy and it's not a Masters-level stadium or atmosphere. Classic 500 level event. Paris already has the FO. Makes more sense (to me) than taking away a clay Masters event.
I'd vote for Halle as the tournament to become a Masters. London has Wimbledon and (currently) the WTF finals. No Masters events in Germany even though tennis seems to be pretty popular over there...
Only Fedtards want to give a M1000 to a surface for cows :lol:
btw peak Grassovic > peak Grassfed, despite all those Grassovic's slipping :lol: So if we Novak fans don't want a grass M1000, neither should Fraudtards.
Get rid of Miami or Cincy. A good spread would be 4 outdoor hard (IW, Canada, Shanghai + Miami/Cincy), 3 clay, 1 grass and 1 indoor hard. Alternatively revert Shanghai back to an indoor event then you can get rid of Paris instead of Miami/Cincy or just settle for 3 outdoor and 2 indoor.
Nah..keep Paris masters ...it's as prestigious for indoor/carpet and season ending tournament as Monte-Carlo for clay ...
4 slam+ 1 YEC
IW+Miami within clout of AO...it create "one leg" in a ATP calendar
Canada+Cinci within clout of USO..another leg within calendar
similarly Paris+Shanghai for YEC ...final leg of season..
Only clay/FO have 3 masters against other slam+YEC having 2 maximum ....too much privilege to a surface which is eye soar and have no life within it. MC is too prestigious ,so downgrade Madrid..
Or u can keep Halle/Queens as 500 and turn Madrid into a grass master itself..which would be better..
Also, ATP instead of pointing out what are "8 mandatory " masters within 9 , should just made it any of 8 masters....
Bringing carpet back and bombing Miami seems like a better idea to be honest, nobody needs gazillion hc tournaments, especially as dreadful as Miami, with scrapping Paris the tour'd lose its only Indoors Masters.
As pointed out by MWW, timing is one problem with there being a grass court Masters tournament. It is a very short season and there are only three weeks between Roland Garros and Wimbledon.
Queen's Club is too small and doesn't meet the criterion for capacity (10,000 seats on main court, and subsequent rules for smaller courts) for a Masters series tournament unless the ATP Tour itself allows a discretionary capacity. (See the ATP Rulebook section 1.20). I'm not sure if Halle has the same capacity deficiencies in this matter.
If you are going to do a grass 1000, it should be HAMBURG which switches to grass and moves into that spot.
If we are to have another grass week, we cannot move Wimbledon any further back so we must move the French Open UP by a week. How? We scrap Miami, or make it one week, and move every clay event up one week, everything else stays in tact.
Paris Masters should stay where it is, otherwise you will have to switch the entire Euro indoor season to February, which is another idea, admittedly.
Bottom line, it is all about money. Don't sleep on the Gulf tournaments making a go for 1000 status, they certainly have the money
I don't think we need to move many tournaments around to have grass its own masters:
we can simply move Queens by a week, make Halle a masters and be done. Total move: 1 tourney.
Or if we want an extra week of grass, we move Madrid and Italy up by one week.
If we want the least amount of tournament conflict from players POV (because in above two scenario, nobody will play Stuttgart/Hertogenbosch and Barcelona), then go back to week of Feb 27th and move Dubai & Acapulco up by a week, with knock-on effect on all the others.
Or, another way it could work, is to have a grass masters the week of July 24th & 31st, though i cant see many top level pros playing that one, given that many skip Canada as it is due to a mid-season mini break.
Why does one have to get the chop to elevate the other ?
Currently, Paris is the only masters event for indoors and grass doesn't have one.
Seems to me, its best to make Halle a masters event and make it 'pick any 8 of 10 masters' scenario to give players both breathing room and flexibility of schedule without penalizing them.
Paris and London already have Grand Slam event, they don't need a Masters one. especially the Paris one is such a soulless one for me. It's time it's moved somewhere else
I was almost going to make a thread on this, I think if for no other reason Germany deserves at least a M1000 level tournament given it's rich history and players. Not saying it has to be Halle, but they were really shafted after Hamburg got downgraded. Even hosting the WTF would be a nice change up from London which will host it's 9th season-ender this year..
There should be warmup tournaments for all 5 major events of the calendar year. Currently, AO has nothing bigger than 250s so really they should be moving the Sunshine Double to January instead. Then cut out Monte Carlo since it's so early in the clay season. That way you can shift the clay season a bit earlier and have room for the grass season. Add two grass masters and we're set. That way, each slam is equally represented in the calendar. Indoor has Shanghai and Paris so that's fine. Maybe throw out Paris given how close it is to WTF which is a lesser tournament than the slams.
Nah, Bercy's a great event and the indoor Euro season is a traditional part of the calendar that should be expanded back to its old size rather than contracted.
The problem is the East Asia swing taking over the second indoor Masters slot. Trim IW and Miami to one week each (and perhaps downgrade Miami to a 500), move and consolidate the East Asia and Middle East events to an AO warmup slot (this requires pushing the AO back a few weeks) and bring back a second indoor Masters (non-madatory perhaps?) prior to the WTF. No need for more grass, the surface died outside WB once the AO went to HC. It has the perfect mini-season as is with its 500 warmups.
There's no way AO would relocate out of the last 2 weeks of summer holidays. It would impact the financial viability of the tournament severely. They'd basically kiss record attendances and high prize money goodbye.
Agree with having at least one grass Masters 1000. I am leaning towards Halle to upgrade it to Masters 1000. London has Wimbledon and World Tour Finals already; so, no more big tournaments for London. Germany should get one.
The current ATP tour is too hard court centric and there are too many hard court events on the tour. USA needs to take the cut, possibly Miami, as there are many other ATP 250 and ATP 500 events, such as Memphis, Newport, Atlanta, Washington D.C., are going on there, in addition to US Open and Indian Wells and Cincinnati. Paris Masters should stay or move it another location, but one indoor Masters 1000 should stay. Two big indoor events (which includes WTF) at the tail end of the season is not a bad idea.
The 3 clay masters 1000s should continue. Clay is a natural surface; players can slide and does not harm feet as much as hard courts.
Removing MC as 1000 as TopFedFan suggests would be more difficult as it enjoys prestige of location, and lot of history. Can't see the tour downgrade that.
Also it brings back Germany in the mix since they downgraded Hamburg once Boredo climaxed on tour.
honestly sounds like a good idea, the reality is Paris comes at an awkward time on the calendar where a lot of the guys are worn out and end up skipping anyway. Paris is probably the most skipped 1000 event by the top guys, partially due to being right before the WTF, and partially just from being so late in the season after they've weathered so much.
Paris (among others) would probably be a good candidate to trade position for a grass 1000. Or maybe move Paris to the Miami spot (so we still have a 1000 on indoor) and eliminate Miami (I say that simply because the event has seemed so-so for quite a while now).
It really is a travesty that there is no Master Series event on grass. One of the regular HC 1000's should be axed in favor of having both an indoor and grass 1000. In my mind the likes of Miami and Cincinatti feel kind of like 'extra' HC 1000's at this point, with their sister tournaments (Indian Wells and Canada respectively) both seeming like the more relevant events in their sections of the season
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Related Threads
?
?
?
?
?
Mens Tennis Forums
18.5M posts
87.7K members
Since 2002
A forum community dedicated to male tennis players and enthusiasts. Talk about everything from the ATP, NSMTA, to college Tennis and even everything about equipment. It's all here!