As Roger has admitted himself, it would be essentially impossible to overturn this head to head. If he maintains his current tactics and confidence level, he can definitely close the gap a little more, though.
They have played each other on average 3 times per year in their rivalry, at that rate even if Federer wins every single match they play from now on it would take 3 more full seasons to overtake Nadal at that rate. And that would involve a 14 match winning streak against Rafa (the 5 match streak he already has + 9 more) which is not realistic even if none of those matches are played on clay. That doesn't even take into account the fact that they will probably play reduced schedules at this point due to their age, or might miss chunks of the season due to injury, or might retire in a year or 2.
Federer if he plays until he is 45. Otherwise - Nadal. But it doesnt matter after all, H2H is not an important stat. Well, 18-0 is, but 23-15 is more or less equal.
8 is too high to overcome at this point.
Fed might overturn lopsided H2H against Novak and has a good chance.
If the Novak 2017 turns up, Federer 2017 might straight set him on clay as well.
Against Nadal, even if he reduces it to a 3/4 gap, good enough considering the matchup disadvantage.
Nadal will end up with the positive H2H, but as it never bothered me, I couldn't care less. I hope there total amount matches played does increase a lot though:nerd:
Nadal will end up with the positive H2H, but as it never bothered me, I couldn't care less. I hope there total amount matches played does increase a lot though:nerd:
i too would love to see them play more often, except on a wider variety of surfaces other than just hc, but as long as roger decides to continue to cowardly skip the clay season, it'll all continue to ring a bit hollow.. in fact, roger's clay shortcomings vs. rafa remain the biggest hole in his potential goat legacy, so it behooves the swiss to get over his crippling rg fears once and for all and actively seek to finally slay the spanish clay dragon at rg, even if he has to make a pact with the devil to do it.. :devil:
Federer has solved a huge puzzle in how to beat Nadal, his BH isn't getting dismantled like it used to and his service is far superior still. However Federer has caught up with Nadal because in my opinion he dodged him in the clay season. I don't like pu**ies in sport and Fed is a big one.
Had they played in RG and Rome it would have been 2 comfortable wins for Nadal.
A lot of this rivalary depends on where and when they play.
36 year old Olderer skipping clay season because it hurts his body and focus was on his 8th Wimbledon (the plan worked out perfectly by the way) has nothing to do with "dodging" Dull. Lol.
By the way: Their last grass encounter was Wimbledon 2008(!)(they only met 3 times during their whole career on grass, Wimbledon 2006-2008).
After this year I'm even more convinced that H2H doesn't matter and H2H is not a real achievement. Only in the minds of tards(dulltards to be precise) is it an actual TANGIBLE achievement.
Every single Fed fan would GLADLY swap 4-0 for dull's ranking right now. After 10 years, nobody will care about that Fed was 4-0/5-0 in 2017, what they'll check is that Fed's weeks at #1 became 350 from 302 and he got 6 YE#1 equalling Sampras.
lol who even voted for Fed, there is no way he is gonna lead H2H...difference of 8 is too big to cover up at this point of his career. I would be really happy if H2H ends up something 25-20, in such scenario, not many will be bringing up H2H anymore in goat discussions. Just want Fed to have good lead in H2H on Hardcourts and specifically outdoor HC
Great thread, I was going to start the same topic but a slightly more provocative title "Can Roger straighten his lopsided H2H vs Nadal?" But you beat me to it.
To answer the question though, 23-20 H2H would be delightful. I see no reason why Roger who's still winning Masters and Slams like he's Prime Fed would not last two more years on tour to at least make the H2H look more respectable, with clever scheduling (meaning no clay season), and continuing with the same game plan against him on hard court (and grass if they were to meet there).
On the whole, H2Hs are irrelevant because the theories of match-ups fail to emphasize on mental and emotional make-up of the athlete though they are very important to the results. But yes, because when reading history, as people are only going to look at objective criteria, 5 more straight wins from Fed might well seal the deal H2Hwise and also see Fed do unto Nadal what he did unto him all these years - step into his mind permanently. I would like that psychological H2H to be fully reversed, very much. He he.
Obviously Nadal, but I'm extremely glad Federer has made such a dent in the H2H this year. I love Federer and loathe Nadal, so I've always hated seeing Federer losing to the guy. Around 2007-8 I came to terms with the fact he had little chance on clay and that in fact Nadal was the far better player on clay, but it was frustrating when Federer also lost on outdoor hard courts, on which he is clearly the better player. With his unrivaled skills and versatility I felt he should be able to find a way to make this superiority tell even against the Spaniard, & it seems as though he's finally done this by using a bigger racquet. More importantly, of course, with Nadal being the world's best player this year, being able to beat him has allowed Fed to win some more big titles.
I've put that pernicious troll anticaria on my Ignore List, but he does have the germ of a point when he says Federer's heavily losing H2H against Rafa counts against him in the GOAT debate - not when compared with Rafa, obviously, whose achievements are significantly lesser, but against real GOAT candidates such as Gonzales & Laver, who had the better of their main rivals. But if Fed maintains his lead on grass & hard courts, then the overall H2H against Rafa is far less of a black mark. Any GOAT candidate, including Gonzales & Laver, would have a losing H2H against Rafa on clay, but they should be able to beat him on surfaces on which they are superior players, or something's gone wrong.
Fed's got the edge on HC and grass, Nadal's earned a big lead on clay. I don't think Fed will overturn the H2H deficit, but he can whittle it down. You never know when momentum can change though.
23-10 was bad, 23-15 as it stands now isn't so bad. I do think Fed could do with another Slam victory or two over Rafa however.
It's a bit too late for Federer to catch up. Nadal's lead was (and remains) too big.
It's not impossible, though. If they meet two more times this year and Federer wins both, then there's a chance. But even then, I don't think it's more than a 10% chance.
I think Nadal will lead 10-3 slamH2H at some point next year.
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