Goat debate: Why Federer will never be surpassed by Nadal as greatest of all time - MensTennisForums.com
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post #1 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-13-2017, 04:24 AM Thread Starter
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Goat debate: Why Federer will never be surpassed by Nadal as greatest of all time

HE may be the current King of New York, but Rafael Nadal will never be the greatest tennis player of all time. The reason? As long as Roger Federer graces this earth that title is already taken.

Nadal will more than likely surpass the Swiss Master's grand slam record after closing the gap to three thanks to his recent US Open triumph. At 31 - five-years younger than Federer - Nadal is a lock for at least two more French Open crowns and you can throw in a few of the "other" slams for good measure with a reasonable level of confidence.

And sure, Rafa is well ahead of his great rival when it comes to Masters titles, owning a record 30 to Federer's 26. Oh, and The King of Clay owns a shining gold Olympic singles medal, something missing from the Swiss's bulging trophy cabinet.

So it seems - by the numbers - that there is no question if he already isn't then it's just a matter of time until Nadal takes the GOAT mantle from the men's grand slam record holder.

But here's why it's not so cut and dry.

Sure, all sport is judged by numbers, but individual sports less so. Is there any disputing Muhammad Ali (five losses) and Sugar Ray Robinson (19 losses) are better than Floyd Mayweather who has never lost? No, there is no argument.

Ali transcended boxing and sport in general with his lightning wit, incredibly polarising opinions, and unmatched beauty in the ring. Federer, though very different, has also transcended his sport by becoming the most universally loved sportsperson on the planet. Part of that love comes from is his exquisite style - how tennis was meant to be played. A ballet dancer with a racket. His single-handed backhand a thing of beauty compared to Rafa's truncated double-handed jab. Gliding across the court, not scurrying. There's a reason the great "Rocket" Rod Laver's favourite ever player is Federer - he's just so good to watch.

Off the court Rafael Nadal is squeaky clean. But his lack of emotion and troubling obsessive compulsive ways make him much harder to love.

Federer is a marketer's dream; good looks, family man, stylish. And he has never put a foot out of place to hurt that image. And as the years wear on, Federer's class has become more and more pronounced - when both winning and losing.

These elements must be taken into consideration when entering the greatest of all time debate.

That's why when Federer's grand slam record is broken - by Nadal or anyone else - he will always be the GOAT.

Definition of tennis: Roger Federer

GOAT debate: Why Roger Federer will never be surpassed by Rafael Nadal as greatest of all time | Daily Telegraph



I thought I'd share this article to show what I meant in a previous comment regarding the level of hatred or dismissal of Rafa by English speaking Western media and pundits. This is just one example, and these type of articles are very common in the English speaking Western media. You can tell what this writer is implying but he doesn't want to come out and say it. Shows absolutely zero respect for Rafa's achievements. This article is what I meant when I said this:

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Originally Posted by careergrandslam View Post
One of the reasons Nadal will never get the recognition he deserves from the English speaking Western media and English speaking Western pundits is that he is not an English speaking Westerner. English speaking Western media and pundits will always support their own people over Spanish speaking people.

It's the same in music, sports, politics, etc.

This topic is not discussed because it's controversial but it's one of the reasons Rafa will never get the recognition he deserves.

They dismiss Spanish speaking players as 'clay court specialists' that have no right to win outside of clay. That's why they hate it when Nadal or another Spanish speaking player from Spain or South America does well in AO, Wim, USO.

Djokovic also faces discrimination because he is Eastern European.

Last edited by careergrandslam; 09-13-2017 at 05:00 AM.
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post #2 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-13-2017, 05:12 AM
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Re: Goat debate: Why Federer will never be surpassed by Nadal as greatest of all time

I read this article on another site and it's probably the dumbest article I've ever read.

Image and class have nothing to do with the GOAT debate. Being well liked doesn't matter. Playing "attacking" or defensive tennis doesn't matter. If a pusher comes along and doesn't hit a single winner for his career but wins 25 slams, then he's the GOAT. It's all about the numbers.
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post #3 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-13-2017, 05:32 AM
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Re: Goat debate: Why Federer will never be surpassed by Nadal as greatest of all time

Okay so this guy likes Federer more and that means Rafa will never be GOAT? Okay.. That's the problem with Fed fans. They think tennis is only meant to be played the way their idol plays it. It must kill them to know this brand of tennis beat their brand of tennis for the last 13 years.
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This shit has been copied and stored in my desk-tops 'notes' application, so as incase you try any funny business. It is beautifully worded for going in my signature when Djokovic gets obliterated today.

Enjoy your sleep, it'll be the last time you sleep well for months.
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No only pushing and stamina is important on clay, I've played on it so I know. I don't need to listen to a fucking tennis expert to know what is good/bad for tennis. I've been playing tennis since I was 7 so I have enough experience to judge for myself unlike a lot of armchair warrior dulltards here. I can easily tell by looking at their posts if they play tennis.
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post #4 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-13-2017, 05:43 AM
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Re: Goat debate: Why Federer will never be surpassed by Nadal as greatest of all time

I think this article confuses "favourite" with calling someone an objective GOAT.

Roger will always remain my favourite, but if Rafa surpasses him in slam count, there is a great case for him to be considered the GOAT.

However, I disagree with this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by careergrandslam View Post
I thought I'd share this article to show what I meant in a previous comment regarding the level of hatred or dismissal of Rafa by English speaking Western media and pundits. This is just one example, and these type of articles are very common in the English speaking Western media. You can tell what this writer is implying but he doesn't want to come out and say it. Shows absolutely zero respect for Rafa's achievements. This article is what I meant when I said this:
This is not entirely true. Most media in the world - including other European countries (French, Italian), Asian countries, etc accord Federer a higher place than Nadal. This is purely because of playing style and persona, which is more "classic" and "purist" in case of Federer, and more unorthodox in case of Rafa. It's not hard to see why most journalists/media would fawn over the first kind. Mind you, I'm not saying one is better than the other, but just that one appeals to more people who write about the sport.

Last edited by siddy; 09-13-2017 at 05:47 AM.
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post #5 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-13-2017, 07:01 AM
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Re: Goat debate: Why Federer will never be surpassed by Nadal as greatest of all time

This is getting cringeworthy. How many more threads? It's just tennis. Relax. Rogie still rules.
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post #6 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-13-2017, 08:39 AM
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Re: Goat debate: Why Federer will never be surpassed by Nadal as greatest of all time

It says a lot about an author rather than Nadal and Federer.

It's actually a big question what males should strive for. Becoming a warrior or a ballerina.
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post #7 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-13-2017, 09:19 AM
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Re: Goat debate: Why Federer will never be surpassed by Nadal as greatest of all time

There it is folks. Its that sweet sound of Federer fans crying behind their laptop screens trying to convince themselves that Nadal will not hunt down Federer's GS record. They are fragile at the moment and will type out long, rambling, tedious, but actually quite funny in a sad sort of way, essays praising their beaten hero. Rejoice my fellow Nadal fans, for it is the sound we long to hear most and cannot even be trumped by Beethoven's Ninth.
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post #8 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-13-2017, 10:26 AM
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Re: Goat debate: Why Federer will never be surpassed by Nadal as greatest of all time

Novak is ahead of both, to be honest. He is the BOAT and that is what matters.
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post #9 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-13-2017, 10:33 AM
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Re: Goat debate: Why Federer will never be surpassed by Nadal as greatest of all time

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Novak is ahead of both, to be honest. He is the BOAT and that is what matters.
This thread is about Federer and Nadal, not your precious BOAT, so if you don't mind, leave this thread, thanks
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post #10 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-13-2017, 10:38 AM
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Re: Goat debate: Why Federer will never be surpassed by Nadal as greatest of all time

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This thread is about Federer and Nadal, not your precious BOAT, so if you don't mind, leave this thread, thanks
The thread is about who is the best player of all time and, sorry to break it to you, it is Novak.
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post #11 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-13-2017, 10:43 AM
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Re: Goat debate: Why Federer will never be surpassed by Nadal as greatest of all time

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The thread is about who is the best player of all time and, sorry to break it to you, it is Novak.
Best player of all time that has 4 slams less than Nadal and 7 slams less than Federer?
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post #12 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-13-2017, 10:48 AM
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Re: Goat debate: Why Federer will never be surpassed by Nadal as greatest of all time

1. Nadal isn't a lock for anything. Not even the FO. If Djokovic comes roaring back, Nadal is at his mercy on every surface.

2. Something nobody has mentioned yet - it's easier to dominate on clay. Most players give up against Nadal at the French Open before the match has even started, because they think, "there is no way I'm going to grind my way to beating him in a best of 5 set match. I'm going to have to win 20 stroke rally after 20 stroke rally against the left-handed moonballer/grinder/sprinter/defender." Not so with players going against dominant players on other surfaces. A player going against Federer, Sampras, or anyone else on grass will always think he has a chance. "Well, maybe if I serve really well today, and I come up with a few returns, a few passing shots, and he has an off day, and maybe I win a tiebreak or two, maybe I can pull off the upset." And on hardcourt, while a little bit more complicated, it still seems possible. "Well, if I execute my ground strokes on my service games, and keep my energy level up on his return games, and he has an off day and hits a lot of errors going for his shots, maybe I can pull this off."

But on clay, which is a shotmaker's hellhole, there's nothing you can do unless you have some "help."
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I donít think heís as fast as he was in his prime. I donít think a lot of the strokes are as good as they were in his prime, but heís just such a good tennis player, and as long as heís healthy he can figure it out. He can mix up his game on a given day. As long as someone is not just overpowering him like Stan did in Paris, Roger has so many options that heís going to figure out how to beat people as long as they donít come out and just throw haymakers and land them.
- Andy Roddick. Obnoxious anti-Federites "in ruins."
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post #13 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-13-2017, 11:00 AM
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Re: Goat debate: Why Federer will never be surpassed by Nadal as greatest of all time

actually rafas to be considered GOAT if he even would tie feds slams, let alone surpass him.
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post #14 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-13-2017, 11:02 AM
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The day Nadal will be called goat will be the end of tennis.
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post #15 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-13-2017, 11:06 AM
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Re: Goat debate: Why Federer will never be surpassed by Nadal as greatest of all time

I think the GOAT thing is a matter of opinion.

Sure, you have to achieve a certain minimum of success in order to enter the equation but after that it is all down to preferences.

What can be determined and debated upon in my opinion is the title MSOT : Most Successfull of All time. That title can be determined and given to the player that holds the best numbers. But again you will have to define which numbers come first although I think there is a general agreement that the GS are above everything else.
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