Is This Possible or An Error? - MensTennisForums.com
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-22-2017, 10:05 PM Thread Starter
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Is This Possible or An Error?

Kohlschreiber and Berlocq played a match in 2017, round 32 of the German Tennis Championship. Kohli won the match 6-3 6-7 6-3. But in the match stats, Kohli is listed as having served 16 times while Berlocq is listed with only 14. How could there be a two service game difference?

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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-22-2017, 10:11 PM
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Re: Is This Possible or An Error?

It seems like he had extra serve games in both first and third sets. Which makes sense as both games had odd number of games.

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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-22-2017, 10:13 PM
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Re: Is This Possible or An Error?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjc225 View Post
Kohlschreiber and Berlocq played a match in 2017, round 32 of the German Tennis Championship. Kohli won the match 6-3 6-7 6-3. But in the match stats, Kohli is listed as having served 16 times while Berlocq is listed with only 14. How could there be a two service game difference?
6-3 = 1 service game difference if Kohli served first.
*1-0 2-0* *3-0 3-1* *4-1 4-2* *5-2 5-3* *6-3 = 5 service games to 4.
1-0* *1-1 2-1* *2-2 2-3* *3-3 3-4* *4-4 4-5* *5-5 5-6* *6-6 = 6 service games to 6.
*1-0 2-0* *3-0 3-1* *4-1 4-2* *5-2 5-3* *6-3 = 5 service games to 4.

Grand total = 16-14.
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-22-2017, 10:13 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Is This Possible or An Error?

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It seems like he had extra serve games in both first and third sets. Which makes sense as both games had odd number of games.
But even with odd games, the start of the next set is served by the guy who received in the last game of the previous set. It always is supposed to rotate that way, so I think there is no way you can get a two game lead on serves. It can only be one,

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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-22-2017, 10:15 PM
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Re: Is This Possible or An Error?

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But even with odd games, the start of the next set is served by the guy who received in the last game of the previous set. It always is supposed to rotate that way, so I think there is no way you can get a two game lead on serves. It can only be one,
If a set results in a tie-break, first to serve in the next set is the guy who did not serve on the last point played in the TB. That is why Kohli served first in S1 and S3.
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-22-2017, 10:16 PM
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Re: Is This Possible or An Error?

If you serve first in the TB the other guy serves first to start the next set. So basically twice in a row while you obviously don't get credit for being the tiebreaker server as both guys serve

Thus 5-4 for Kohli(serving first), 6-6 tie in the 2nd(with Berlocq serving first and starting the tiebreaker), and then 5-4 Kohli again(because Kohli starts the 3rd set serving) for a 16-14 split.

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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-22-2017, 10:18 PM
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Re: Is This Possible or An Error?

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Originally Posted by Slasher1985 View Post
If a set results in a tie-break, first to serve in the next set is the guy who did not serve on the last point played in the TB. That is why Kohli served first in S1 and S3.
That's not true actually, first server in the next set is the guy who didn't serve first in the last set, thus the guy who didn't start the tiebreaker. Doesn't matter who finished it. For example this match today

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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-22-2017, 10:18 PM
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Re: Is This Possible or An Error?

KOH 2-1 BER | Philipp Kohlschreiber - Carlos Berlocq

You're welcome.

It's actually 14-16. Weird.
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-22-2017, 10:21 PM
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Re: Is This Possible or An Error?

I checked the stat, it is 14-16 for Berlocq there, the other way around to what the OP said. Can't you check some stats right, OP?

Philipp Kohlschreiber VS Carlos Berlocq | Match Stats | ATP World Tour | Tennis

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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-22-2017, 10:22 PM
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Re: Is This Possible or An Error?

Where are you getting your match stats from? They didn't play this year in Hamburg so I assume you mean their 2016 match which flashscore has Berlocq being the one to serve 16 times, and Kohli 14

KOH 2-1 BER | Philipp Kohlschreiber - Carlos Berlocq

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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-22-2017, 10:23 PM
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Re: Is This Possible or An Error?

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Originally Posted by 156mphserve View Post
Where are you getting your match stats from? They didn't play this year in Hamburg so I assume you mean their 2016 match which flashscore has Berlocq being the one to serve 16 times, and Kohli 14

KOH 2-1 BER | Philipp Kohlschreiber - Carlos Berlocq
Check my post above yours, the only error here is that of the OP.
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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-22-2017, 10:26 PM
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Re: Is This Possible or An Error?

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Originally Posted by Slasher1985 View Post
Check my post above yours, the only error here is that of the OP.
Yes he did have it backwards, but I don't think that really matters to the point of his question which the answer is yes it's possible for 1 guy to serve twice more than the other, happens every single time you see 3 odd number of games sets in a row, the middle being a tiebreaker. You can ever get 3 more with something like 6-1 6-7 3-6 7-6 6-3

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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-22-2017, 10:33 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Is This Possible or An Error?

Okay, it looks like I did get the service stats wrong, and this match was from 2016 not 2017. I guess I am not up on the tiebreaker rules. I thought whatever happens in terms of serve order in the tiebreaker is irrelevant to what happens in the next set. I thought the serve order always reverts back to the previous set, so there would be no way anyone could get more than a one serve lead in a match. Thanks for alerting me to how tiebreak service rules work.
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-22-2017, 10:44 PM
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Re: Is This Possible or An Error?

Took me a while scanning drawsheets on wikipedia to find a time when 1 guy served 3 more times as you need an odd number of games in the 1st, 3rd, and 5th sets, and tiebreakers in the 2nd and 4th but I finally found one

https://www.atpworldtour.com/en/play...89/match-stats
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-23-2017, 06:36 AM
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Re: Is This Possible or An Error?

From what my knowledge is, I know whoever served first in the Set gets to serve first in the TB, and whoever did not serve first in the TB, will be the first server in the start of the next Set.



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