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post #1 of 75 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 10:51 AM Thread Starter
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The transition from age 29 to 30

Just an observation (and a coincidence?) that the transition from age 29 to 30 seems to have posed some challenges to our top 4 players although for different reasons. None of them had sustained top form throughout this period. But both Roger and Rafa has made (Rafa is making) a comeback post-30.

RAFA: Last slam he won was in 2014 (aged 28). Stopped winning slams in 2015 and started to suffer shock defeats at USO uncharacteristically.

Roger: Last consistent slam victory was at AO 2010 (aged 28) and failed to win any slams in a year for the first time in 2011.

Murray: achieved No.1 after turning 29 but started to suffer early exits which never happened before in his career.

Djokovic: Won his last slam and completed CGS aged 29 but had been in decline since then. He's having trouble mentally and physically to find his form at the moment.

If Federer and Nadal's examples (Federer's 2012 and Nadal's current year) are anything to go by, I believe Murray and Djokovic will find their way to the top again probably next year, but they will not perform consistently like they used to.

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Originally Posted by Roger Federer after winning Wimbledon 2017
I guess again it's just belief, achieve such heights. I wasn't sure if I was going to be here again after last year. I've had some tough finals. I always believed I could come back here again. I kept believing and dreaming and here I am today.
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post #2 of 75 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 11:00 AM
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Re: The transition from age 29 to 30

Why do you bundle Murray with the other 3? He should never be considered together with the big 3 in these kind of discussions. Not good enough.

If you include Murray why do you omit Wawrinka?

This being said, each top player is different and has its own career path influenced by many various factors. Bundling them together like this is ignorant and wrong.

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post #3 of 75 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 11:11 AM
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Re: The transition from age 29 to 30

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Originally Posted by Floki View Post
Why do you bundle Murray with the other 3? He should never be considered together with the big 3 in these kind of discussions. Not good enough.

If you include Murray why do you omit Wawrinka?

This being said, each top player is different and has its own career path influenced by many various factors. Bundling them together like this is ignorant and wrong.
Murray is better than Wawrinka, if you compare the two over a ten year spell I am sure Murray will come out on top, using Slams>Masters>Olympics. That said, I completely agree that Murray is the weakest of these four, but still has a place in any conversation pertaining the original big '#'. I am far from a Murray fan, can easily find room for criticism, but I would have to be blind and inept at every language to not see his value in the conversation.
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post #4 of 75 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 11:33 AM
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Re: The transition from age 29 to 30

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Murray is better than Wawrinka, if you compare the two over a ten year spell I am sure Murray will come out on top, using Slams>Masters>Olympics. That said, I completely agree that Murray is the weakest of these four, but still has a place in any conversation pertaining the original big '#'. I am far from a Murray fan, can easily find room for criticism, but I would have to be blind and inept at every language to not see his value in the conversation.
Wawrinka's slams are incredible and Murray's are incredibly forgettable.

People will still be saying Murray is better than Wawrinka even if Wawrinka wins the career slam.

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post #5 of 75 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 12:12 PM
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Re: The transition from age 29 to 30

wawrinka does not have any objective advantage over murray: he has the same amount of slams but has no yec 1, gold olympics, wtf, has 1 masters compare to 14 of murray, negative h2h...
it's like saying capriati(wawrinka like with 3-0 in slam finals, 14 titels comapre to 15 of wawrinka,2 tier 1) is batter than davenport just becuase her slams are more impressive.
higher peak lavel is absototly not enough to be a batter player than a player that has lower peak but greater results and consisity.
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post #6 of 75 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 01:03 PM
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Re: The transition from age 29 to 30

Better change this thread name in Wawarinka or Murray and try again OP

On topic, it`s hard to tell. I`m really looking forward the next couple of years for Murray, Djokovic and Nadal. Federer untill now is one the few with his insanely high level from 30`s onwards. Will be interesting to see how the others will fare. There is no real sane word of prediction to be said about it I think. With there age the furthest we can look is the next slam. To much variables that can be thrown in there, even when they were younger. The players themselves or not looking any more ahead for sure.

Last edited by Joe Speedboot; 05-17-2017 at 01:09 PM.
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post #7 of 75 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 01:17 PM
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Re: The transition from age 29 to 30

I'd wager that the Big Four all played much closer to their full potential with far more consistency than Wawrinka ever did. In other words, Wawrinka's physical decline basically went unnoticed.
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post #8 of 75 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 01:26 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The transition from age 29 to 30

Quote:
Originally Posted by Floki View Post
Why do you bundle Murray with the other 3? He should never be considered together with the big 3 in these kind of discussions. Not good enough.

If you include Murray why do you omit Wawrinka?

This being said, each top player is different and has its own career path influenced by many various factors. Bundling them together like this is ignorant and wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HitTheBall View Post
Murray is better than Wawrinka, if you compare the two over a ten year spell I am sure Murray will come out on top, using Slams>Masters>Olympics. That said, I completely agree that Murray is the weakest of these four, but still has a place in any conversation pertaining the original big '#'. I am far from a Murray fan, can easily find room for criticism, but I would have to be blind and inept at every language to not see his value in the conversation.
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Originally Posted by Burrow View Post
Wawrinka's slams are incredible and Murray's are incredibly forgettable.

People will still be saying Murray is better than Wawrinka even if Wawrinka wins the career slam.
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Originally Posted by Joe Speedboot View Post
Better change this thread name in Wawarinka or Murray and try again OP

On topic, it`s hard to tell. I`m really looking forward the next couple of years for Murray, Djokovic and Nadal. Federer untill now is one the few with his insanely high level from 30`s onwards. Will be interesting to see how the others will fare. There is no real sane word of prediction to be said about it I think. With there age the furthest we can look is the next slam. To much variables that can be thrown in there, even when they were younger. The players themselves or not looking any more ahead for sure.
I rather think Murray is much more similar to Federer/ Nadal/Djokovic in terms of consistency and therefore the comparison is more of value. Wawrinka is like an exception to the general rule as he peaked late into his career after being a journeyman for a long time. Federer/Nadal/Murray have never been a journeyman for their whole life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Federer after winning Wimbledon 2017
I guess again it's just belief, achieve such heights. I wasn't sure if I was going to be here again after last year. I've had some tough finals. I always believed I could come back here again. I kept believing and dreaming and here I am today.
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post #9 of 75 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 01:27 PM
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Re: The transition from age 29 to 30

For most of his career Nadal would run around the backhand to make it into a forehand.
In his late20s it became too difficult to do this regularly and Nadal was forced to improve his (already very good) backhand which is now a huge weapon.
So the transition from 29-30 was Nadal relying less on his forehand and weaponizing his backhand.
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post #10 of 75 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 02:51 PM
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Re: The transition from age 29 to 30

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Originally Posted by clearwaters View Post
I rather think Murray is much more similar to Federer/ Nadal/Djokovic in terms of consistency and therefore the comparison is more of value. Wawrinka is like an exception to the general rule as he peaked late into his career after being a journeyman for a long time. Federer/Nadal/Murray have never been a journeyman for their whole life.
I agree with you, I just thought that in 4 posts this thread was heading in a completely other direction.
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post #11 of 75 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 03:39 PM
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Re: The transition from age 29 to 30

Wawrinka is closer to Murray than Murray is to legends like Roger, Rafa and Nole.

Add the fact that Murray is far less popular than the Big 3.

The question stands..why do we keep putting Murray in the same sentence as the Big3.

Because of GB of course, and their influence.

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post #12 of 75 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 04:11 PM
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Re: The transition from age 29 to 30

It was always big 3 but the British media forced the moniker Big 4 down our throat even though Murray has achieved nowhere near the other three. The difference between the big 3 and Murray is WAY more than the difference between him and Stanimal. Hopefully Stanimal wins Wimbledon this year and completes CGS to surpass Murray once and for all.
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post #13 of 75 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 04:18 PM
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Re: The transition from age 29 to 30

Obviously Murray is better than Wawrinka but it makes way more sense to group Wawrinka with Murray than Murray with the big 3. Wawrinka is way way more closer Murray than Murray is to go 3. Big 4 is nonsense, it's big 3. Sadly we're too used in what the media says and can't help but use it the term big 4
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post #14 of 75 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 04:19 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The transition from age 29 to 30

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Originally Posted by Joe Speedboot View Post
I agree with you, I just thought that in 4 posts this thread was heading in a completely other direction.
I thought people would be interested in discussing why that period is such a critical moment for these players....
Probably it isn't as interesting as the Murray/Wawrinka comparison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Federer after winning Wimbledon 2017
I guess again it's just belief, achieve such heights. I wasn't sure if I was going to be here again after last year. I've had some tough finals. I always believed I could come back here again. I kept believing and dreaming and here I am today.
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post #15 of 75 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 04:22 PM
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It's not criticial. Federer got exposed by the modern game (topspin and physical tennis) and way better players and overall competition.

Nole simply lost motivation after RG and became vegan and lost 15 lbs and let Pepe Imaz control him.

Had none of this happened, Nole would have continued to win everything.
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