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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-03-2006, 08:42 PM Thread Starter
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Prestige of the ATP tourney's

With the tennis calendar critisised heavily for the withdrawals in Paris (and a lesser extent Madrid?) and ppl wanting to move the 'major tournaments' around, I was wondering, which ATP tourneys ppl actually considered important, and which could be scrapped. I mean on face value, some1 could argue each masters series is equal, they test players in different ways (being on different sufaces and conditions, such as Madrid and Monte Carlo) and they are worth the same amount of points (aren't they?). But there are some tourneys ppl just wouldn't touch, IW and Miami are v.popular and considered v.important, wheras Madrid doesn't have the history (started in 2002?) or the prestige. Which order would you rank the tournaments (the ATP nine) in terms of how big an achivement it is to win them, and how good they are as a tournament in general. And none are played on grass, I know it is difficult to accomodate since RG and Wimbledon are close together, but surely there should be at least 1 on grass?

On that note, how much do ppl value the TMC? is it just commercial, or is there some real prestige in winning it? After the 4 slams, is the TMC next, or some other tournaments?

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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-03-2006, 09:02 PM
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Re: Prestige of the ATP tourney's

1. TMC ~ Important

2. Rome ~ History
3. Miami ~ pseudo 5th slam


4. Monte Carlo ~ spectacular
5. Madrid
6. Canada


7. Indian Wells
8. Hamburg
9. Paris
10. Cincinatti


11. Queens
12. Barcelona
13. Sydney
14. Tokyo
15. LA
16. Dubai/Doha
17. Bangkok/Beijing
18. Basel/Stockholm/Halle

19. All the other MM events
20. Adelaide/Casablanca/Newport/Mumbai/Nottingham/Las Vages ><!
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-03-2006, 09:13 PM
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Re: Prestige of the ATP tourney's

Cincinnati is one of the oldest tournaments - 1899 - and the oldest in North America still played in it's original city/area. Even before it was Super 9/TMS, the greats like John McEnroe, Boris Becker, Mats Wilander, Ken Rosewall, etc. were winning it.

Madrid has no history really and Bercy is just 20 years old. Indian Wells isn't that well attended, I think it may be the least popular and definitely the most remote.

Miami is the players' favorite and since it's combined is almost the 5th Slam.

TMC is important if only because it determines the year end rankings.

1. TMC
2. Miami
3. Roma
4. Monte Carlo
5. Cincinnati
6. Indian Wells
7. Canada
8. Paris
9. Hamburg
10. Madrid

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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-04-2006, 03:40 AM
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Re: Prestige of the ATP tourney's

It is the bad scheduling that results in the withdrawls in Hamburg.
Hamburg has a history going back more than 100 years, the traditional German Open. It would be really ridiculous if Hamburg would lose its Masters status to the likes of Madrid or Bercy.
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-04-2006, 07:15 AM
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Re: Prestige of the ATP tourney's

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Originally Posted by Fed-Express View Post
It is the bad scheduling that results in the withdrawls in Hamburg.
Hamburg has a history going back more than 100 years, the traditional German Open. It would be really ridiculous if Hamburg would lose its Masters status to the likes of Madrid or Bercy.
Bad scheduling for sure. The really funny thing is that they used to play Hamburg before Rome, which was silly as well cause of the weather situation. What they need to do is put IS events in between Rome and Hamburg, but that would be too logical.

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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-04-2006, 08:06 AM
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Re: Prestige of the ATP tourney's

Didn't they play Hamburg after RG in the early 70s?

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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-04-2006, 09:38 AM
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Re: Prestige of the ATP tourney's

I think the Tennis Masters Cup is important for more than the rankings. It used to be The Masters, then split into the ATP Tour World Championship and the Grand Slam Cup, and then it merged again into the Tennis Masters Cup, so there's a lot of history. Also its a huge target to qualify for for a lot of the players at the start of the year and of course it has the largest amount of ranking points of all the ATP Tour events.

Miami is by far and away the most prestigous of the Masters Events, commonly dubbed 'The Fifth Slam" and "Winter Wimbledon". And before Miami had this status it was Rome that the players most wanted to win, so I would say these are the highest profile Masters events.

Following these would be Monte-Carlo, Cincinnati and Hamburg based on their long history, although as we know bad scheduling (back-to-back tournaments, weather conditions, etc) have left Hamburg possibly the least respected AMS.

I feel Indian Wells is always well respected and attended by the players, but is maybe a little too remote for the fans, hence the financial issues they had last year.

Outisde of the AMS events there are many tournaments with almost as much history and respect. I would say Queen's, Barcelona, and Dubai are three contenders along with a few others.


TMC
Miami
Rome
Monte-Carlo / Cincinnati
Hamburg / Indian Wells / Canada / Paris
Madrid
Queen's / Barcelona / Dubai
Other ISG tournaments as well as Basel, Doha, Halle, Washington
Other IS tournaments


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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-04-2006, 09:53 AM
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Re: Prestige of the ATP tourney's

Of course, Masters Cup has the prestige, no serious doubts about that. Only Masters Cup winners are remembered.

Others are generally equal, Miami maybe 2nd
if you want a list..
Miami
Paris-Bercy - some overlook the exclusive history of that tournament as one of two real AMS tournaments in the 90ies
Rome - Italian Open
Hamburg - German Open
Monte Carlo
Canadian Open
than The rest

Yes, Cincinnati .. what is it? US Open? No, Ohio Open? no..
-> low prestige... and it now has a status as a tune-up for the US Open since it became a lousy US Open Series tournament. Not a good thing for the prestige.
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-04-2006, 11:09 AM
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Re: Prestige of the ATP tourney's

Miami only started in the mid 80's, and it was only dubbed the 5th slam cos the ATP had to play 5 setters from 1st rd to last, that didnt last too long
they even had the finals best of 3 sets for a few yrs also.


the most prestigeous of the TMS are
1)Rome (Italian Open)
2)Canadian Open
3)Cincinatti
4)Monte Carlo
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-04-2006, 02:30 PM
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Re: Prestige of the ATP tourney's

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Originally Posted by LaTenista View Post
Indian Wells isn't that well attended, I think it may be the least popular and definitely the most remote.
Do you know what you're talking about?
Indian Wells is a huge event, along with Miami has one of the biggest attendances among Masters Series (270,000). Way more than Cincinnati or Canada or the European ones.

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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-04-2006, 03:50 PM
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Re: Prestige of the ATP tourney's

After the Big Four of course, the Masters Cup comes next to my way of thinking. It's essentially the same tournament as the old Masters in which all the greats of the modern era played in and was designed to showcase the leading players of the year. Nalbandian's win over Federer last year was shown around the world and I'm sure Nalbandian would say winning that event was the biggest of his career.

To me, next would come Rome (the old Italian Open), Hamburg (formerly the German Open), Monte Carlo (prestigious tournament going back a long time) and maybe Miami.

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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-04-2006, 04:16 PM
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Re: Prestige of the ATP tourney's

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Yes, Cincinnati .. what is it? US Open? No, Ohio Open? no..
-> low prestige... and it now has a status as a tune-up for the US Open since it became a lousy US Open Series tournament. Not a good thing for the prestige.
Please get a clue. For the last 27 years Cincinnati has been a warm-up for the US Open, played on the same surface for that reason. I already highlighted some of the winners pre-90s, since it's been Super 9/TMS: Pete Sampras and Andre Agassi (3 times each), Michael Chang and Andy Roddick (2 times each), Pat Rafter, Gustavo Kuerten, Carlos Moya, Roger Federer.

And what exactly is lousy about the US Open Series? Players play for the chance to get bonus prize money at the US Open and here in the US we get some TV coverage of each event.

PS Don't forget Canada is also part of the US Open Series and has been a warm-up for the US Open for many years as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peoples View Post
Do you know what you're talking about?
Indian Wells is a huge event, along with Miami has one of the biggest attendances among Masters Series (270,000). Way more than Cincinnati or Canada or the European ones.
Indian Wells is a 2 week event that is combined - I am sure there are fans who go to only the WTA matches. If it was really "well attended" as you say, why does it have such financial troubles and needed saving by Sampras et al? Cincinnati is 1 week with the men and women playing different weeks and the attendence is over 150,000 for the Masters. So actually if you divide IW's attendence in half, Cincy is better attended. Also Canada is slightly better attended than Cincinnati, probably due to it being the only ATP level tournament in that large country. I will have to agree that mostly the European Masters appear to have the most empty seats when the cameras scan over the stands but I don't know the numbers.

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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-04-2006, 05:07 PM
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Re: Prestige of the ATP tourney's

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Originally Posted by LaTenista View Post
Indian Wells is a 2 week event that is combined - I am sure there are fans who go to only the WTA matches. If it was really "well attended" as you say, why does it have such financial troubles and needed saving by Sampras et al? Cincinnati is 1 week with the men and women playing different weeks and the attendence is over 150,000 for the Masters. So actually if you divide IW's attendence in half, Cincy is better attended. Also Canada is slightly better attended than Cincinnati, probably due to it being the only ATP level tournament in that large country. I will have to agree that mostly the European Masters appear to have the most empty seats when the cameras scan over the stands but I don't know the numbers.
My point was the IW is a huge event as it is, not at all "least popular" or "not well attended". I don't see how its remoteness is an issue at all, there are more people in the Greater Los Angeles Area alone than in the whole state of Ohio. I think both Cincinnati and IW are good prestigious tournaments.

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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-04-2006, 05:24 PM
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Re: Prestige of the ATP tourney's

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My point was the IW is a huge event as it is, not at all "least popular" or "not well attended". I don't see how its remoteness is an issue at all, there are more people in the Greater Los Angeles Area alone than in the whole state of Ohio. I think both Cincinnati and IW are good prestigious tournaments.
Is Palm Springs really considered part of Greater Los Angeles?

BTW Greater Cincinnati is a tri-state area (SW Ohio, N KY, SE Indiana) not to mention fans come from Michigan, Illinois, Tennessee as well as from many other states and countries.

I considered going to IW in the past - my birthday seems to always fall during the finals weekend - but it's far too remote & expensive - there are no direct flights to Palm Springs and someone told me it's a good 45 minute drive from the airport to Indian Wells, where all the hotels are expensive and there's nothing there except the tennis, golf, and spas. At least Miami has nightlife and New York sights and musuems.

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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-04-2006, 07:14 PM
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Re: Prestige of the ATP tourney's

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It is the bad scheduling that results in the withdrawls in Hamburg.
Hamburg has a history going back more than 100 years, the traditional German Open. It would be really ridiculous if Hamburg would lose its Masters status to the likes of Madrid or Bercy.
But surely, no matter how old or traditional a tournament is, if it isn't popular then why keep it? The seats are empty and the local TV coverage is scarce at best. I think Germany barely takes notice when it hosts its biggest tennis tournament. Halle seems to attract better crouds and more TV coverage than Hamburg.

Something needs to be done about it because tennis is still popular in Germany. Either the timing, the location or the surface (or all three) need to be changed.
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