What exactly is the effect of altitude?? - MensTennisForums.com

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post #1 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-18-2006, 05:31 PM Thread Starter
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What exactly is the effect of altitude??

So madrid is the highest european capital and commentaters are going on about how hard it is to control the ball at a high altitude. The court is relativlely slow but y is it that the ball travels fast through the air but bounces on the ground pretty slowly compared to other hard courts?

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post #2 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-18-2006, 05:44 PM
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Re: What exactly is the effect of altitude??

the altitude is what makes the ball fly. You have a guy like Blake who hits hard and flat and his balls are gonna fly more than someone who hits with a lot of spin, and yes from what the commentators say, the surface itself is gritty, takes spin, and is on the slow side for a HC, so you have this dichotomy of the balls flying through the air but the surface itself being a bit slow and i think that's why the conditions are so hard to get used to.

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post #3 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-18-2006, 05:51 PM Thread Starter
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Re: What exactly is the effect of altitude??

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Originally Posted by FlashDeb View Post
the altitude is what makes the ball fly. You have a guy like Blake who hits hard and flat and his balls are gonna fly more than someone who hits with a lot of spin, and yes from what the commentators say, the surface itself is gritty, takes spin, and is on the slow side for a HC, so you have this dichotomy of the balls flying through the air but the surface itself being a bit slow and i think that's why the conditions are so hard to get used to.
Well in that case the courts should be fast too Its not the slpw surface compensates for fast balls.
Do u know why the altitude makes the ball tarevel faster??
This is really intriguing me coz i never knew altitude made a difference till today!

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post #4 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-18-2006, 05:54 PM
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Re: What exactly is the effect of altitude??

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Originally Posted by supersexynadal View Post
Well in that case the courts should be fast too Its not the slpw surface compensates for fast balls.
Do u know why the altitude makes the ball tarevel faster??
This is really intriguing me coz i never knew altitude made a difference till today!
Because the density of the air is lower.
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post #5 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-18-2006, 05:55 PM
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Re: What exactly is the effect of altitude??

I still don't understand how 650m above sea level is considered 'altitude'.

The differences in air density and gravity at this height are totally neglectable, and IMO those morons are just in search for something to talk about.

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It's a sport after all and while it is very important for the players, the only reason they make money (and I mean tennis as a whole) it's because it's entertainment for us, the fans. So if we're watching, I rather watch something that pleases the eye, who gives a shit if a BOSS hotass model takes 5 more seconds in geting the ball to the player in Madrid? I'd rather wait those extra 5 seconds seeing those boobies bounce than watching some fatass kid burn away his bigmac meal.

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post #6 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-18-2006, 05:59 PM
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Re: What exactly is the effect of altitude??

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I still don't understand how 650m above sea level is considered 'altitude'.

The differences in air density and gravity at this height are totally neglectable, and IMO those morons are just in search for something to talk about.
Those morons are a lot of players that feel very strange in his first practises in Madrid because they have problems to control their shots.
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post #7 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-18-2006, 06:00 PM
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Re: What exactly is the effect of altitude??

The effects of altitude are : the ball flies more and faster in the air , and if I'm not wrong altitude makes a higher bounce too .
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post #8 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-18-2006, 06:01 PM
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Re: What exactly is the effect of altitude??

Easy easy:

ρ = p/RT where ρ = air density, R = gas constant, T = temperature.

The pressure diminishes with altitude, as hydrostatic pressure is P=ρgh (h is the height of the fluid column - air is the fluid and the place being in a higher place, the column of air on top of it must be lower).

The proportion between ρ and P is direct, and if P lowers, ρ must be lower too, so both sides of the equation remain true.

There you go, ρ (air density) diminishes with height, making the ball fly a little faster.

Temperature changes too, and it should be taken into consideration, but the difference of temperature isn't very high, unless the difference of altitude is really high too. In fact, temperature's effect is probably greater than pressure's effect.

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post #9 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-18-2006, 06:01 PM
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Re: What exactly is the effect of altitude??

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Originally Posted by Rogiman View Post
I still don't understand how 650m above sea level is considered 'altitude'.

The differences in air density and gravity at this height are totally neglectable, and IMO those morons are just in search for something to talk about.
I agree with you. Air friction should not be a factor at 2000 ft above sea level and gravity should be the same even at higher altitudes. Someone said that the balls are flying due to the balls and not due to the altitude though I can't find the link now.

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post #10 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-18-2006, 06:02 PM
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Re: What exactly is the effect of altitude??

The balls in Madrid are the same as in all of the Masters events and I think they are known to fly a bit, but it's not mentioned anywhere else nearly as much as Madrid - this comes up every year.
---------------------------------------

Q. Andy, some players say it's hard to control the ball in these conditions here, but you did a pretty good job of it, didn't you?

ANDY RODDICK: It's definitely tough. What are we looking at, about 2000 feet of altitude or something, you know. Coming from Vienna, it was just tough where the balls were huge. To here where the ball carries an extra probably two or three feet on every shot. It's definitely an adjustment.



Q. What sort of adjustment do you make? Do you have to throttle back, or do you decide to just go for it?

ANDY RODDICK: I think the biggest thing was I went up in tension on my rackets to make it tighter so the ball doesn't fly off as much. Four or five pounds different on my tension. So that was probably the only major adjustment. It fits in better for my game anyways.

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post #11 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-18-2006, 06:04 PM
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Re: What exactly is the effect of altitude??

For instance the main reason why Madrid wasn't elected as 2004 Davis Cup final venue was because Roddick's serve was more dangerous at altitude , then Seville was the elected
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post #12 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-18-2006, 06:05 PM
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Re: What exactly is the effect of altitude??

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Originally Posted by GlennMirnyi View Post
There you go, ρ (air density) diminished with height, making the ball fly a little faster.

Temperature changes too, and it should be taken into consideration, but the difference of temperature isn't very high, unless the difference of altitude is really high too. In fact, temperature's effect is probably greater than pressure's effect.
Anyone who's ever tried to light a cigarette at 4000m knows what difference altitude makes. At 650m, however, it's plain bullshit.

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Originally Posted by Kuhne View Post
It's a sport after all and while it is very important for the players, the only reason they make money (and I mean tennis as a whole) it's because it's entertainment for us, the fans. So if we're watching, I rather watch something that pleases the eye, who gives a shit if a BOSS hotass model takes 5 more seconds in geting the ball to the player in Madrid? I'd rather wait those extra 5 seconds seeing those boobies bounce than watching some fatass kid burn away his bigmac meal.

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post #13 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-18-2006, 06:05 PM
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Re: What exactly is the effect of altitude??

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Originally Posted by Rogiman View Post
I still don't understand how 650m above sea level is considered 'altitude'.

The differences in air density and gravity at this height are totally neglectable, and IMO those morons are just in search for something to talk about.
Well, at the level that these guys are playing even small things make a difference. At the Madrid altitude the density of the air is about 5% lower than at sea level, which means that the air is thinner, the friction (resistance) exercised on the ball is lower. Therefore the ball travels faster. I agree it sounds negligible, but how can we know unless we play at the pro level?
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post #14 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-18-2006, 06:07 PM
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Re: What exactly is the effect of altitude??

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Well, at the level that these guys are playing even small things make a difference. At the Madrid altitude the density of the air is about 5% lower than at sea level, which means that the air is thinner, the friction (resistance) exercised on the ball is lower. Therefore the ball travels faster. I agree it sounds negligible, but how can we know unless we play at the pro level?
Have they also reported breathing difficulties at 650m?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuhne View Post
It's a sport after all and while it is very important for the players, the only reason they make money (and I mean tennis as a whole) it's because it's entertainment for us, the fans. So if we're watching, I rather watch something that pleases the eye, who gives a shit if a BOSS hotass model takes 5 more seconds in geting the ball to the player in Madrid? I'd rather wait those extra 5 seconds seeing those boobies bounce than watching some fatass kid burn away his bigmac meal.

I don't know, call me old fashioned but I like women
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post #15 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-18-2006, 06:07 PM
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Re: What exactly is the effect of altitude??

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Originally Posted by Metis View Post
Well, at the level that these guys are playing even small things make a difference. At the Madrid altitude the density of the air is about 5% lower than at sea level, which means that the air is thinner, the friction (resistance) exercised on the ball is lower. Therefore the ball travels faster. I agree it sounds negligible, but how can we know unless we play at the pro level?
Well, the science of it may be negligible but if Andy's right that the ball is flying 2-3 feet more, then that is certainly not negligible, and it explains why so many seeded players here have trouble in their first matches year after year.
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Have they also reported breathing difficulties at 650m?
it seems logically feasible to me that the air is just thinner enough to influence the speed of the ball, but not make it harder for people to breathe

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