Difference between race rankings and world rankings - MensTennisForums.com

 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-13-2006, 07:50 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
General Suburbia's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Age: 27
Posts: 1,136
                     
Difference between race rankings and world rankings

There must be something I don't understand that everyone else does. I posted something about this before, but wanted to make a proper thread for this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Me!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyward View Post
At the end of the year № 3 in the race is the # 3 ranked player in the world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by victory1 View Post
I dont think some people realize that the race ranking will be next year begining rankings. The only difference will be the top 8 players in the TMC will be able to add to their ranking points since there's 750 ranking points to grab or 150 race points.
I don't quite get how that works. How does the rankings system then balance itself out? I'm probably wrong, but explain this to me.

Let's say Nalbandian doesn't get into the TMC but still stays #4 in the world. Since he wasn't able to qualify in the Master's Cup, does that mean next year he starts outside of the top 8 in the world? What happened to all his points he accumulated in the progress? Do they just disappear to take him outside of the top 8? According to the ATPtennis.com faq, the race only determines the world #1.

I'm pretty sure there's a difference between the race points and the [World Ranking] Indesit ATP rankings. I was under the impression that the race only determined who qualified for the Master's Cup, not specifically a player's overall Rankings. Roddick's current ATP rank is 6. If he overcomes Ljubo in the race rankings, does that mean next year he starts out at #3? The only way I see this not happening is if the year-end rankings determined by the race suddenly drop and everything is shifted back to normal the beginning of next year.

Unless you're talking about something else entirely and not distinguishing between ATP world rank and the ATP race rankings.

Indesit World rankings: http://www.atptennis.com/3/en/rankings/entrysystem/
ATP race rankings: http://www.atptennis.com/3/en/rankings/championsrace/
Anyone care to explain properly for me? With the thread about Roddick's about to become year-end #3, I started getting confused about my understanding of race rankings.
General Suburbia is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-13-2006, 07:53 PM
Not a Registered User
 
El Legenda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: US of A
Posts: 30,181
                     
Re: Difference between race rankings and world rankings

Race pts are done by season
Entry is 52 weeks..but at end of year...he 52 weeks line up with the 1 season does that help.

1 race pt = 5 entry pts

El Legenda is offline  
post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-13-2006, 07:55 PM
When You're On The Poster
 
Johnny Groove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: South Florida
Age: 26
Posts: 41,963
                     
Re: Difference between race rankings and world rankings

sure



The race points are the amount of points that a player has earned THIS YEAR, IE from January 1- present. The entry ranking points are the amount of points from the last 365 days, meaning the last few tourneys from 05 are still on the table for entry ranking points.

For example, this is why you see berdych at #15 in the race, but #11 in the rankings due to his win in Paris last year

Follow my Youtube Channel for all my matches
Follow me on IG for the latest news, vids, pics, and memes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Novak Djokovic
Obviously, you play a lot of mind games with yourself, but it is important to always believe that you can play your best, perform your best, and in the end, your convictions are stronger than your doubts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
If I took the time to respond to every criticism that came across my desk, there would be no time for constructive work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humphrey Bogart
The only thing you owe the audience is a good performance
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niccolo Machiavelli
There is nothing more difficult to take in hand, more perilous to conduct, or more uncertain in its success, than to take the lead in the introduction of a new order of things.
Johnny Groove is offline  
post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-13-2006, 08:18 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
General Suburbia's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Age: 27
Posts: 1,136
                     
Re: Difference between race rankings and world rankings

I know all that, but my question is, why does everyone treat the race rankings as the official rankings? Does the race rankings have any effect on the world rankings? Because everyone here seems to treat it that way.

As quoted in the initial post, Skyward said "At the end of the year № 3 in the race is the # 3 ranked player in the world."
General Suburbia is offline  
post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-13-2006, 08:28 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 683
                     
Re: Difference between race rankings and world rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by General Suburbia View Post

As quoted in the initial post, Skyward said "At the end of the year № 3 in the race is the # 3 ranked player in the world."
Can be wrong in rare cases.
Boris Franz Ecker is offline  
post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-13-2006, 08:30 PM
Not a Registered User
 
El Legenda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: US of A
Posts: 30,181
                     
Re: Difference between race rankings and world rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by General Suburbia View Post
I know all that, but my question is, why does everyone treat the race rankings as the official rankings? Does the race rankings have any effect on the world rankings? Because everyone here seems to treat it that way.

As quoted in the initial post, Skyward said "At the end of the year № 3 in the race is the # 3 ranked player in the world."

Nobody cares about the Race until the US Open....

entry is used for seeding and getting into tournys..

Race is only used at end to see who are the top 8 players in that year..that go on to play in the Tennis Master Cup

El Legenda is offline  
post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-13-2006, 08:37 PM
Registered User
 
LCeh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,580
                     
Re: Difference between race rankings and world rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by General Suburbia View Post
I know all that, but my question is, why does everyone treat the race rankings as the official rankings? Does the race rankings have any effect on the world rankings? Because everyone here seems to treat it that way.

As quoted in the initial post, Skyward said "At the end of the year № 3 in the race is the # 3 ranked player in the world."
These two ranking systems serve different purposes. Before the USOpen, the race is almost completely worthless, since there is still so much tennis to be played. However, after that, it gives you a pretty good picture of how the players have been doing in the current calender year so far, as it doesn't have any points from the previous year, so there are no points to defend, no points come off, and players simply add points as they earn them.

The entry system gives you an idea of how the players have done in the past year (52 weeks), and it's the ranking that's used for seeding. You can't go wrong with this system in general, but if you just want to isolate this year's achievement, and not counting the previous year, then you can go to the race.

After TMC is played, the past 52 weeks (entry system) is virtually the same as the race, since nobody plays anymore in mid November/December of the previous year, so the previous 52 weeks is basically same as the current calender year.
LCeh is offline  
post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-13-2006, 08:40 PM
country flag Lee
Gugaholic
 
Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Under the blue sky
Posts: 84,779
                     
Re: Difference between race rankings and world rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by LCeh View Post
After TMC is played, the past 52 weeks (entry system) is virtually the same as the race, since nobody plays anymore in mid November/December of the previous year, so the previous 52 weeks is basically same as the current calender year.
race points don't include challengers etc but ranking points do.
Lee is offline  
post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-13-2006, 10:20 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,459
                     
Re: Difference between race rankings and world rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by General Suburbia View Post
I know all that, but my question is, why does everyone treat the race rankings as the official rankings? Does the race rankings have any effect on the world rankings? Because everyone here seems to treat it that way.

As quoted in the initial post, Skyward said "At the end of the year № 3 in the race is the # 3 ranked player in the world."

Skyward is correct. Just before TMC, race and entry lists will be the same, at least for top players. Lower ranked ones will be slightly different as race system doesn't count challengers. Since no top 10 player would waste time on challengers, it is pretty safe to assume this:

- right before TMC, top 10 race will be the same as top 10 entry (because at that point both systems would include points from this year's tournaments)

Right after TMC, players who participated in it have a chance to improve their entry ranking at the beginning of the next year, as demonstrated by Nalbandian who barely qualified for TMC last year but surged to #4 by winning it.
Apemant is offline  
post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-13-2006, 10:31 PM
country flag Lee
Gugaholic
 
Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Under the blue sky
Posts: 84,779
                     
Re: Difference between race rankings and world rankings

Ljubicic make TMC last year but he also played a challenger because it's in Croatia.
Lee is offline  
post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-14-2006, 08:20 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,459
                     
Re: Difference between race rankings and world rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee View Post
Ljubicic make TMC last year but he also played a challenger because it's in Croatia.
Ugh, yep, forgot about that. A rare example of a year end top 10 playing a challenger earlier in the year.

Still, since Luby had 7 better results at the ATP level that year, winning the Zagreb challenger didn't affect his entry system points. So at the end of the year, before TMC, race and entry were still the same for him (just divide entry points by 5 and you get race points, in that case).
Apemant is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the MensTennisForums.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome