A flaw in the Hawkeye system? - MensTennisForums.com
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post #1 of 50 (permalink) Old 09-08-2006, 01:53 AM Thread Starter
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A flaw in the Hawkeye system?

Does anyone else think it becomes a bit silly, when towards the end of a set players just challenge calls for the hell of it, even though they don't really think the call has been wrong?

I don't really know how they can change it, but it was getting silly in the Haas/Davydenko match at times.
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post #2 of 50 (permalink) Old 09-08-2006, 01:59 AM
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Re: A flaw in the Hawkeye system?

Quote:
Originally Posted by adee-gee
Does anyone else think it becomes a bit silly, when towards the end of a set players just challenge calls for the hell of it, even though they don't really think the call has been wrong?

I don't really know how they can change it, but it was getting silly in the Haas/Davydenko match at times.
It is used for gamesmanship, but a challenge isn't nearly as long of a delay as calling out the trainer, so I don't view it as a huge problem.

I would be more concerned with the accuracy of the system. How big are the error bars on this technology? With a bunch of calls shown as just barely in or out, it seems to me that a lot of it may be up to chance.
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post #3 of 50 (permalink) Old 09-08-2006, 01:59 AM
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Re: A flaw in the Hawkeye system?

I heard someone say, who knew about the system, that it has a 97% accuracy, which is good, but lets say 100% is better. Anyway, its still good to have a system that most of the time works.

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post #4 of 50 (permalink) Old 09-08-2006, 02:47 AM
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Re: A flaw in the Hawkeye system?

I kinda agree...

The only time it gets silly is when the player(s) don't use either of their challenges during the set, then get an extra one for the tiebreak, all of a sudden there's a total of 6 challenges to be used up, and if they decide to use a lot of them, the most crucial part of the set can become a bit of a joke.

I remember Ljubicic-Gonzalez in Toronto was kinda like that where they challenged about 5 calls and they were laughing about it all, so the intensity of the tiebreak almost dissappeared.


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post #5 of 50 (permalink) Old 09-08-2006, 02:50 AM
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Re: A flaw in the Hawkeye system?

I'm more annoyed that chair umps have gotten lazier and won't overrule calls anymore. Suddenly the burden has shifted to the players and they really don't need that added pressure.

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post #6 of 50 (permalink) Old 09-08-2006, 02:53 AM
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Re: A flaw in the Hawkeye system?

you are right!
i hope the other tournaments don't add that to their system
trust the us to think of things for better tickets and viewing
and not about the feelings of players

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post #7 of 50 (permalink) Old 09-08-2006, 03:50 AM
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Re: A flaw in the Hawkeye system?

According to the developer of the system there is a margin of error of 3.6 mm. So those shots where you see the ball just grazing the line may actually be out. As for the challenges that come late in the set the player figures "what have I got to lose at this point by challenging"--hope springs eternal.
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post #8 of 50 (permalink) Old 09-08-2006, 03:54 AM
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Re: A flaw in the Hawkeye system?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tangerine_dream
I'm more annoyed that chair umps have gotten lazier and won't overrule calls anymore. Suddenly the burden has shifted to the players and they really don't need that added pressure.
It's worse than that - I don't think some of them bother to check the lines very closely anymore when they're on a court with Hawkeye - they just seem to assume that the player will challenge if they don't like a call.

I wouldn't give a shit about that if the players had unlimited challenges but the current implementation is a bit of a lottery - use them up and the you're out. Seems really unfair.
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post #9 of 50 (permalink) Old 09-08-2006, 05:57 AM
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Re: A flaw in the Hawkeye system?

They need to get rid of the limited challenges. If you have the technology you should be able to use it at any time.

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post #10 of 50 (permalink) Old 09-08-2006, 06:12 AM
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Re: A flaw in the Hawkeye system?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mirkaland
They need to get rid of the limited challenges. If you have the technology you should be able to use it at any time.
What and try and it slow the game down even more.

On Nadal bumping him on the changeover, Rosol said: "It's ok, he wanted to take my concentration; I knew he would try something".


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Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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post #11 of 50 (permalink) Old 09-08-2006, 06:22 AM
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Re: A flaw in the Hawkeye system?

Quote:
Originally Posted by drf716
you are right!
i hope the other tournaments don't add that to their system
trust the us to think of things for better tickets and viewing
and not about the feelings of players
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeWHitler
What and try and it slow the game down even more.
There's unlimited challenge on clay courts and it even takes longer, IMO, as the umpire has to come down from the chair, argue which is the right mark and scramble back to the chair
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post #12 of 50 (permalink) Old 09-08-2006, 06:26 AM
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Re: A flaw in the Hawkeye system?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
There's unlimited challenge on clay courts and it even takes longer, IMO, as the umpire has to come down from the chair, argue which is the right mark and scramble back to the chair
Can you see a clear mark on clay? As long as they are watching where the ball lands and the other player doesn't try and wipe out ball marks before it has been examined, it doesn't take long.

If it hits a line on clay, then the bounce it takes is usually indicates so.

On Nadal bumping him on the changeover, Rosol said: "It's ok, he wanted to take my concentration; I knew he would try something".


Wilander on Dimitrov - "He has mind set on imitating Federer and yes it looks good. But he has no idea what to do on the court".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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post #13 of 50 (permalink) Old 09-08-2006, 08:09 AM
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Re: A flaw in the Hawkeye system?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeWHitler
Can you see a clear mark on clay? As long as they are watching where the ball lands and the other player doesn't try and wipe out ball marks before it has been examined, it doesn't take long.

If it hits a line on clay, then the bounce it takes is usually indicates so.
There had been times players argued with umpire about which ball mark was the right one. And hawkeye doesn't take that long to determine whether the ball is in or out.

So when both don't take that long, why the bias vs Hawkeye? I agree it's not available on all courts but at least, this is a progress.

And with the system, there are lots less players arguing with umpire on line calls which saves lots of time, IMO.
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post #14 of 50 (permalink) Old 09-08-2006, 08:18 AM
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Re: A flaw in the Hawkeye system?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
There had been times players argued with umpire about which ball mark was the right one. And hawkeye doesn't take that long to determine whether the ball is in or out.

So when both don't take that long, why the bias vs Hawkeye? I agree it's not available on all courts but at least, this is a progress.

And with the system, there are lots less players arguing with umpire on line calls which saves lots of time, IMO.
Replacing one inaccurate system with another. The umpire is the one who should know where the ball lands and they might as well do away with all of the officials then and just let the machines take over.

OK, if it were unlimited challenges, it could used just as a total distraction tool. Coria would be calling it for every 2nd point among others and even now most are using it at the end of the set for the sake of it.

You are trying to make out Hawkeye is perfect and it's not, there will be errors with Hawkeye and clay and hardcourt can't be accurately compared when it comes to calling lines just cause of the general nature of the surface.

At least they aren't silly enough to implement it in the clay events as of yet.

On Nadal bumping him on the changeover, Rosol said: "It's ok, he wanted to take my concentration; I knew he would try something".


Wilander on Dimitrov - "He has mind set on imitating Federer and yes it looks good. But he has no idea what to do on the court".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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post #15 of 50 (permalink) Old 09-08-2006, 09:25 AM
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Re: A flaw in the Hawkeye system?

Given what I've seen so far with Hawkeye vs camera closeups of the call, I'd say 97% is generous...
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