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post #1 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-18-2006, 07:24 PM Thread Starter
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The new age of Tennis player, all talent and no brains ?

Sports seem to be going through a transition, be it in the NBA, NFL or on the ATP Tour.

Okay, so there are these players and they show up, with incredibile amounts of talent. You name it, they're capable of doing it, you name the shot, they're capable of making it and yet the most basic elements of the game they are lacking.

1). Physical fitness (In the case of Berdych and Murray especially, maybe Djokovic as well)
2). Mental strength ( As Nadal has proven, it's not something that's developed, it's something that you have within yourself) (Marat Safin, the weakest of the weak when it comes to this element. )

Also, while we're on the topic of mental strength, Federer's strength isn't exactly in that area either. He's not mentally weak, but he's definitely not mentally strong. He's just inbetween, anyone that's been watching Roger knows it's always been that way with him. He's no Pete Sampras or Nadal when it comes to that.

Another thing, interesting to see a guy like Roddick becoming a mental midget after being probably one of the strongest on tour when it came to wanting to win. I didn't even bother watching half of his matches, because it always seemed he wanted to win so badly that he'd somehow find a way. Roger penetrated his brain and has stolen what he had left of dignity.
Back to fitness ...

Seriously, you have to ask yourself how could one possibly find themselves playing at this level and they've yet to even find themselves a sufficient fitness program. Are you kidding me ? So, you've been winning matches all of this time and you can't last for longer than an hour without throwing up ?

It's kind of difficult to believe that they've enjoyed this much success and they've basically been slacking off their entire careers. You have all of this talent, but it only actually manifests itself once or twice a year.

Compare this list of players (ignore their accomplishments), we're talking talent here and tell me if you honestly find the more accomplished to be more talented.

Chang vs Nalbandian or maybe Chang vs Hewitt
Sampras vs Federer
Courier vs Davydenko
Muster vs Kuerten ( Muster definitely outlasted Kuerten, but Kuerten is more accomplished and owned him with regard to accomplishments)
Agassi vs Safin ( both were morons, one grew up, the other one is still in moron stage)
Richard K - Patrick Rafter vs Andy Roddick ( Ok, fair enough. Roddick is outclassed here in all aspects, rendering my point useless)
Todd Martin vs Ivan Ljubicic or maybe even James Blake (drew this comparison because of the height and both had big serves, obviously Todd was a lot more traditional with regard to his style of play)

Point is, if you look at guys like Courier, Chang or Todd Martin they all exceeded their talent. They weren't fancy shot makers or they weren't guys that were athletic, even if you compare counter punchers to counter punchers, Nadal is a very athletic guy. These guys didn't even look like athletes, yet they constantly worked on their physical conditioning outside of the court.

Muster and Courier both acknowledged recently that going into a match one aspect that was in their hands and that they both took extreme pride in was being physically fit. Okay, so basically these guys show up week in and week out giving 100 pct. and no less, even if they know it's an act of futility against a guy like Pete. No one ever gave Sampras anything, not that guys are giving Roger anything, but they certainly aren't doing themselves any favors by showing up out of shape or playing like mental midgets.

My examples maybe weren't the showcase of talent on tour right now, I left out a lot of names, but I only drew those comparisons for the sake of argument. Understood ? If we look at it from a talent standpoint, this era blows away anything that was around during Pete's reign. People can't seem to understand that talent doesn't translate into results always, because things like ego and health get in the way of that.

Roger Federer is already the most talented to ever touch a tennis racquet, but there's a difference between being the most talented and being the greatest of all time. Also, in all seriousness, Nadal may not be able to stand up to guys like Berdych or Gasquet once they reach their peak and finally get their act together, but this guy has shown what hard work will do. Funny part about it is Nadal isn't doing anything out of the ordinary if you think back 10 or 15 years ago.

After or If these guys get their act together, there is no way Roger and Rafael can continue to dominate the way they've been doing so, in this age of tennis and with so much talent on tour it shouldn't be possible. Then again, maybe it'll continue, because most of the time by the sportsman is old enough to actually realize the importance of others aspects of play .... the talent has diminished with age.

So, we'll see how things go. Anyone have comments ?

Last edited by prima donna; 06-18-2006 at 07:27 PM.
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post #2 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-18-2006, 07:36 PM
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Re: The new age of Tennis player, all talent and no brains ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by prima donna
Sports seem to be going through a transition, be it in the NBA, NFL or on the ATP Tour.

Okay, so there are these players and they show up, with incredibile amounts of talent. You name it, they're capable of doing it, you name the shot, they're capable of making it and yet the most basic elements of the game they are lacking.

1). Physical fitness (In the case of Berdych and Murray especially, maybe Djokovic as well)
2). Mental strength ( As Nadal has proven, it's not something that's developed, it's something that you have within yourself) (Marat Safin, the weakest of the weak when it comes to this element. )

Also, while we're on the topic of mental strength, Federer's strength isn't exactly in that area either. He's not mentally weak, but he's definitely not mentally strong. He's just inbetween, anyone that's been watching Roger knows it's always been that way with him. He's no Pete Sampras or Nadal when it comes to that.

Another thing, interesting to see a guy like Roddick becoming a mental midget after being probably one of the strongest on tour when it came to wanting to win. I didn't even bother watching half of his matches, because it always seemed he wanted to win so badly that he'd somehow find a way. Roger penetrated his brain and has stolen what he had left of dignity.
Back to fitness ...

Seriously, you have to ask yourself how could one possibly find themselves playing at this level and they've yet to even find themselves a sufficient fitness program. Are you kidding me ? So, you've been winning matches all of this time and you can't last for longer than an hour without throwing up ?

It's kind of difficult to believe that they've enjoyed this much success and they've basically been slacking off their entire careers. You have all of this talent, but it only actually manifests itself once or twice a year.

Compare this list of players (ignore their accomplishments), we're talking talent here and tell me if you honestly find the more accomplished to be more talented.

Chang vs Nalbandian or maybe Chang vs Hewitt
Sampras vs Federer
Courier vs Davydenko
Muster vs Kuerten ( Muster definitely outlasted Kuerten, but Kuerten is more accomplished and owned him with regard to accomplishments)
Agassi vs Safin ( both were morons, one grew up, the other one is still in moron stage)
Richard K - Patrick Rafter vs Andy Roddick ( Ok, fair enough. Roddick is outclassed here in all aspects, rendering my point useless)
Todd Martin vs Ivan Ljubicic or maybe even James Blake (drew this comparison because of the height and both had big serves, obviously Todd was a lot more traditional with regard to his style of play)

Point is, if you look at guys like Courier, Chang or Todd Martin they all exceeded their talent. They weren't fancy shot makers or they weren't guys that were athletic, even if you compare counter punchers to counter punchers, Nadal is a very athletic guy. These guys didn't even look like athletes, yet they constantly worked on their physical conditioning outside of the court.

Muster and Courier both acknowledged recently that going into a match one aspect that was in their hands and that they both took extreme pride in was being physically fit. Okay, so basically these guys show up week in and week out giving 100 pct. and no less, even if they know it's an act of futility against a guy like Pete. No one ever gave Sampras anything, not that guys are giving Roger anything, but they certainly aren't doing themselves any favors by showing up out of shape or playing like mental midgets.

My examples maybe weren't the showcase of talent on tour right now, I left out a lot of names, but I only drew those comparisons for the sake of argument. Understood ? If we look at it from a talent standpoint, this era blows away anything that was around during Pete's reign. People can't seem to understand that talent doesn't translate into results always, because things like ego and health get in the way of that.

Roger Federer is already the most talented to ever touch a tennis racquet, but there's a difference between being the most talented and being the greatest of all time. Also, in all seriousness, Nadal may not be able to stand up to guys like Berdych or Gasquet once they reach their peak and finally get their act together, but this guy has shown what hard work will do. Funny part about it is Nadal isn't doing anything out of the ordinary if you think back 10 or 15 years ago.

After or If these guys get their act together, there is no way Roger and Rafael can continue to dominate the way they've been doing so, in this age of tennis and with so much talent on tour it shouldn't be possible. Then again, maybe it'll continue, because most of the time by the sportsman is old enough to actually realize the importance of others aspects of play .... the talent has diminished with age.

So, we'll see how things go. Anyone have comments ?
Zzz.
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post #3 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-18-2006, 07:41 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The new age of Tennis player, all talent and no brains ?

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Zzz.
A discussion not exclusively devoted to Roger or Nadal is obvious boring.

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post #4 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-18-2006, 07:43 PM
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Re: The new age of Tennis player, all talent and no brains ?

I promise to read and comment when I have more time than just 12 minutes... To me, topic is very interesting. I just wanted to say this trend is touching both ATP and WTA.

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post #5 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-18-2006, 07:47 PM
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Re: The new age of Tennis player, all talent and no brains ?

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Zzz.
Did you even read all of it?

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post #6 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-18-2006, 07:53 PM
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Re: The new age of Tennis player, all talent and no brains ?

Agreed.

So much talent on the tour at the moment, and yet just about everyone is a headcase, choker, idiot, out of shape, etc. It is very tough to balance out the talent with the mental problems, before the talent is gone, either to age or injury. And it also sucks when one player has the grit and determination and yet, for some reason, loses it at one point, and never gets it back. Like roddick and then he lost it to Fed, or Hewitt, who had it, lost it, and is now currently trying to get it back. Ive heard stories about how Agassi in his 20's used to drive around for Taco Bell's at night so he could eat. Now, obviously, Taco Bell isnt going to give you a 6-pack, but he won back then because of immense talent. Then, as he got older, he dedicated himself to nutrition and look at what he's been able to do. Imagine if he had done that before instead of Taco Bell

The point of it all is that at the moment, the tour is full of talent, and unfilled potential. Safin and Gasquet's ranking should not be that low, for example. If one wants to be a great tennis player, or pro in anything for that matter, one must have the talent, but also the will to win and the other intangibles. You can have all the talent in the world, but without fitness or a mental strength, you wont fulfill your potential.

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post #7 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-18-2006, 07:57 PM
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Re: The new age of Tennis player, all talent and no brains ?

Insightful. There are more important things than talent.
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post #8 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-18-2006, 07:58 PM
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Re: The new age of Tennis player, all talent and no brains ?

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Originally Posted by prima donna
1). Physical fitness (In the case of Berdych and Murray especially, maybe Djokovic as well)

Anyone have comments ?
Curious how Berdych has managed to win all the 5th sets he has played in his career with that poor physical fitness of his

Keep smoking that weed of yours
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post #9 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-18-2006, 08:03 PM
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Re: The new age of Tennis player, all talent and no brains ?

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Curious how Berdych has managed to win all the 5th sets he has played in his career with that poor physical fitness of his

Keep smoking that weed of yours
Hes won 6/6 , I didnt know that

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post #10 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-18-2006, 08:05 PM
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Re: The new age of Tennis player, all talent and no brains ?

Nice post prima donna.

But I think that tennis players have always been tempermental and headcases. At least since I've watched from the late 70s. (And my dad said tennis players were tempermental even when it was mostly amateurs).

One of the reasons, imho, is that there is so much more added pressure on tennis players because they are really out there alone. Unlike many sports...like baseball, football (both), hockey, etc. etc. ... tennis players don't have any support from a team. And we all know how little the ATP helps these guys out. All the travel. I think it just wears on the guys.

As for the fitness level, its difficult to compare the fitness levels of today with the fitness levels of yesterday because the game has changed. Its much more physical now. And we have a lot of different fitness levels out there now. I won't name the guys that aren't fit because most of us know them and why make their fans feel bad because they know it too. But there are many fit players too - Rafa, James, and of course, my fav Nico M. to name a few.
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post #11 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-18-2006, 08:20 PM
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Re: The new age of Tennis player, all talent and no brains ?

You said the talent has diminished with age.... I have to disagree.
15-20 years ago, all the players could rely on is just talent. These days, tennis is integrated with more attention to fitness, footwork and most of all, new rackets, strings etc that give players more power or spin. I could be wrong. I didnt watch tennis ages ago coz i wasnt born but im pretty sure thats how it was.

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post #12 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-18-2006, 08:20 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The new age of Tennis player, all talent and no brains ?

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Originally Posted by Deivid23
Curious how Berdych has managed to win all the 5th sets he has played in his career with that poor physical fitness of his

Keep smoking that weed of yours
I understand that English isn't your first language, so maybe you're unwilling to take the time out of your schedule and actually construct a thoughtful response (obviously your schedule is filled with things to do), but I was referring to Berdych's poor movement, which translates into a physical fitness problem.

If Berdych were working on his movement, maybe he'd be developing at a quicker rate and having success when it really counts, instead of just beating guys that one would expect a player of his level to dismiss. Then again, he has to start somewhere.

Then again, that'd be called thinking outside of the box. You don't do that, you're here exclusively to troll, this is what separates idiots like you from me. I reserve my trolling for special occasions and frankly, haven't had any reason to do it as of late.
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post #13 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-18-2006, 08:23 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The new age of Tennis player, all talent and no brains ?

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You said the talent has diminished with age.... I have to disagree.
You're partially right, but maybe I didn't properly convey my point.

When a player is an idiot in the earlier stages of their career, they tend to settle down with age, but the downside to that is often times it's simply too late. Obviously, there are exceptions to the rule (Agassi being a perfect one).

Thus, with age, talent diminishes.
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post #14 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-18-2006, 08:28 PM
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Re: The new age of Tennis player, all talent and no brains ?

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Originally Posted by prima donna
I understand that English isn't your first language, so maybe you're unwilling to take the time out of your schedule and actually construct a thoughtful response (obviously your schedule is filled with things to do), but I was referring to Berdych's poor movement, which translates into a physical fitness problem.

If Berdych were working on his movement, maybe he'd be developing at a quicker rate and having success when it really counts, instead of just beating guys that one would expect a player of his level to dismiss. Then again, he has to start somewhere.

Then again, that'd be called thinking outside of the box. You don't do that, you're here exclusively to troll, this is what separates idiots like you from me. I reserve my trolling for special occasions and frankly, haven't had any reason to do it as of late.
Blah blah blah

I know what fitness is and Berdych definetely doesn´t have a fitness problem. In fact, Berdych moves quite well for a guy of his height, go get a clue, jackass

PD: Btw, just to make it clear, I´ve never taken your posts seriously so keep on posting bullshit, I find it funny ocasionally

Last edited by Deivid23; 06-18-2006 at 08:33 PM.
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post #15 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-18-2006, 08:37 PM
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Re: The new age of Tennis player, all talent and no brains ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deivid23
Curious how Berdych has managed to win all the 5th sets he has played in his career with that poor physical fitness of his

Keep smoking that weed of yours
Aye, Tomas is pretty fit.


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