Johnny Mac states that if Fed wins RG, he's the best ever: wrong!!! - MensTennisForums.com
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post #1 of 75 (permalink) Old 06-09-2006, 09:14 PM Thread Starter
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Johnny Mac states that if Fed wins RG, he's the best ever: wrong!!!

I just read that Johnny Mac stated that if Fed wins RG, he will pass Sampras and Laver as the best player ever. I think this comment is truly short-sighted, bordering on insane. No doubt, Roger's accomplishment would be incredible. But to place Roger ahead of so many greats without the accomplishments necessary is utterly deplorable and disrespectful of the legacies of these players.

In my mind, while Roger might very well END UP being the best player ever, there are many reasons he should not be considered as such. If he wins RG, I would put him at the level of Andre Agassi...the only other man since Laver to win all four majors in his career...
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post #2 of 75 (permalink) Old 06-09-2006, 09:15 PM
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Re: Johnny Mac states that if Fed wins RG, he's the best ever: wrong!!!

Now whose opinion shall we lean towards? One of the tennis greats, or posters on MTF?.... Just kidding. To each their own opinion. In fact, there is a poll running right now on MTF for you to place your vote and say this is insane
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post #3 of 75 (permalink) Old 06-09-2006, 09:19 PM
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Re: Johnny Mac states that if Fed wins RG, he's the best ever: wrong!!!

I am a huge Fed fan and I think JMac is full of One cant be called the best ever until at the end of his/her career

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post #4 of 75 (permalink) Old 06-09-2006, 09:23 PM
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Re: Johnny Mac states that if Fed wins RG, he's the best ever: wrong!!!

It's interesting that McEnroe holds the RG trophy in such esteem. In effect, he's arguing against his own credentials, being someone who lacks it himself (though he came so agonizingly close ). It's rather admirable, actually... many great players choose to prioritize the things that they themselves did well when talking about matters of historical greatness. Makes them look better.

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post #5 of 75 (permalink) Old 06-09-2006, 09:37 PM
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Re: Johnny Mac states that if Fed wins RG, he's the best ever: wrong!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterQ
It's interesting that McEnroe holds the RG trophy in such esteem. In effect, he's arguing against his own credentials, being someone who lacks it himself (though he came so agonizingly close ). It's rather admirable, actually... many great players choose to prioritize the things that they themselves did well when talking about matters of historical greatness. Makes them look better.

FO 1984 final still hits John hard. For the first 2 sets against Lendl he played outstanding tennis and looked exceptional on a clay court, BUT then the bubble burst and the Lendl won in 5 sets.

The current greatness league of active players in order of achievements to date (a factual comparison rather than fan biased assessment):

Federer 17 GS, 6 Year End Masters, 24 Master Series.
Nadal 14 GS, 27 Master Series, 1 Olympic Gold.
Djokovic 9 GS, 4 Year End Masters, 24 Master Series.


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post #6 of 75 (permalink) Old 06-09-2006, 09:40 PM
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Re: Johnny Mac states that if Fed wins RG, he's the best ever: wrong!!!

I agree with John . If Federer win will be the best in the history.. but the problem is he never won RG if nadal is alive. (i think)

Good luck to: Rafael Nadal, Kristof Vliegen, Adreas Seppi and Guillermo García-López
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post #7 of 75 (permalink) Old 06-09-2006, 09:40 PM
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Re: Johnny Mac states that if Fed wins RG, he's the best ever: wrong!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterQ
It's interesting that McEnroe holds the RG trophy in such esteem. In effect, he's arguing against his own credentials, being someone who lacks it himself (though he came so agonizingly close ). It's rather admirable, actually... many great players choose to prioritize the things that they themselves did well when talking about matters of historical greatness. Makes them look better.
Like Nav and Sampras, you mean?

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post #8 of 75 (permalink) Old 06-09-2006, 09:45 PM
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Re: Johnny Mac states that if Fed wins RG, he's the best ever: wrong!!!

There is nothing like best player ever. You cannot compare across eras. He could end up being the best player of his time.
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post #9 of 75 (permalink) Old 06-09-2006, 09:56 PM
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Re: Johnny Mac states that if Fed wins RG, he's the best ever: wrong!!!

Quote:
It's interesting that McEnroe holds the RG trophy in such esteem. In effect, he's arguing against his own credentials, being someone who lacks it himself (though he came so agonizingly close ). It's rather admirable, actually... many great players choose to prioritize the things that they themselves did well when talking about matters of historical greatness. Makes them look better.
It's really interesting to see how easily JMAC acknowledges the greatness of other players being an all-time great himself. I never thought he would be like this when I was watching him when I was young.

JMAC also has talked numerous times about how much that loss to Lendl in the 84 RG final hurt and that he gets a little sick to his stomach when he first looks at the courts of RG because it reminds him of that loss.
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post #10 of 75 (permalink) Old 06-09-2006, 09:57 PM
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Re: Johnny Mac states that if Fed wins RG, he's the best ever: wrong!!!

opinions are opinions, but i believe hes right.

Hell i think the evidence lies in the facts that the greats from the past era, almost all in unison are stating that federer is one of those "special few" who "Transcends generations"

If you want to make this about sampras and federer, I would be happy to do so, but mac has been privileged enough to watch federer and sampras in their respective primes, rack up titles and GS, and honestly he is just awe struck at his shotmaking, much like all of us are, when hes playing on the absolute pinnacle of his game.

Guys, be serious here, please take down your rose colored glasse and just ask yourself this, When sampras was in big big trouble in points, what could you almost ALWAYS guarantee he would come up with? The answer would be, if serving
a) greatly placed 1st serve

followed by cat like quickness to net for either
a-1) insanely incredible half volley

or a-2) Overhead smash with authority

When he was on the receiving side and sensed the opportunity, you would probably see one of his

b-1) Incredible running forehand cross court, probably one of the best in the game

or

b-2) *gasp*, an actual occasional clutch backhand, that would so shock the opponent (circa 1995) that it would usually lull you out of your state of half-drooling sleep to go "OMG HOW DID HE DO THAT!"


Thats not a knock on sampras, but that was basically the nuts and bolts of his "specialness", the ability to come up with those kindsa magical shots


Fedex on the other hand comes up with everything sampras ever came up with, EXCEPT the deft half volley and "overhead slam WITH AUTHORITY"

But here is where hes got sampras beat. He does the other things, the quickness, the beautiful backhands, the incredible forehand, from almost ALL the tennis positions possible, and usually while in the middle of a HEATED tennis exchange with another player involving balls that have greater spin and pace than 5 years ago (thats simply due to changes in technology and court surfaces).

Federer doesnt just "come up with the goods" for short bursts, and then depend on his serve to basically finish off the rest of the game, half lulling the audience to sleep. He CONSTANTLY is coming up with SHOTS, ANGLES, TOUCH, DEPTH, SPINS, SLICES....

This is simply what has caught the eye of one Johnny Mac...simply why you hear him sometimes in mid sentence simply let out a laugh, as if showing, from one hall of famer to another "that was just...that was..how do you DO THAT! (in a macenroe esque tone)

Very very rarely did you see Johnny doing that in the mid 90's when commentating on a sampras final, be it at wimbledon or US open. He would usually say that again, on those clutch serves, when he would pretty much guess "yep ace up the tee" before the serve occured on triple breaker, and proceed to watch him follow through on the prognostications made just a second earlier. OR you would see him and mary C (carillo) marvel at the air he got on the overhead smash, or the deftness in his "sofft" little half volley "Dropper"

But not nearly as consistantly as he does watching federer.

Frankly folks, if you dont get my post, ill summarize it succintly by a simple quote:

"greatness knows when greatness is being created"....and this is whats happening in the case not only of Mcenroe, but others like the Beckers, Lendls, Borgs, etc.

Federer makes you go "wow" in way more manners than a sampras ever did...and i remember watching sampras in his "all court" prime in 1993-1996
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post #11 of 75 (permalink) Old 06-09-2006, 10:00 PM
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Re: Johnny Mac states that if Fed wins RG, he's the best ever: wrong!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCtennisfan
It's really interesting to see how easily JMAC acknowledges the greatness of other players being an all-time great himself. I never thought he would be like this when I was watching him when I was young.

JMAC also has talked numerous times about how much that loss to Lendl in the 84 RG final hurt and that he gets a little sick to his stomach when he first looks at the courts of RG because it reminds him of that loss.
Yeah, 84RG kills him.

I remember John saying at one point (I believe it was a few years ago, when he and Agassi both had 7 slams) that Agassi was a greater player than he was, because Andre had won all four. It surprised me at the time, because I would personally have ranked them about equally.

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post #12 of 75 (permalink) Old 06-09-2006, 10:09 PM
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Re: Johnny Mac states that if Fed wins RG, he's the best ever: wrong!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterQ
It's interesting that McEnroe holds the RG trophy in such esteem. In effect, he's arguing against his own credentials, being someone who lacks it himself (though he came so agonizingly close ). It's rather admirable, actually... many great players choose to prioritize the things that they themselves did well when talking about matters of historical greatness. Makes them look better.
That's the hallmark of a great player who is not worried about his spot in history-- he is secure enough in his achievements & where he stands that he doesn'tneed to pull others down to make himself look better.
I like JMac a lot - he is not shy to give credit where credit is due.
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post #13 of 75 (permalink) Old 06-09-2006, 10:09 PM
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Re: Johnny Mac states that if Fed wins RG, he's the best ever: wrong!!!

IF Roger were to win RG somehow, he would have only won 8 slams. Same number as Agassi. 6 less than Sampras. He has a long way to go yet before being mentioned alongside those players in terms of greatness. Is he the most talented player ever. In my mind YES. However talent and greatness are NOT the same thing.
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post #14 of 75 (permalink) Old 06-09-2006, 10:26 PM
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Re: Johnny Mac states that if Fed wins RG, he's the best ever: wrong!!!

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Originally Posted by MisterQ
Yeah, 84RG kills him.

I remember John saying at one point (I believe it was a few years ago, when he and Agassi both had 7 slams) that Agassi was a greater player than he was, because Andre had won all four. It surprised me at the time, because I would personally have ranked them about equally.

JMAC also acknowledges that Borg's 11 slams consisting of all French Opens and Wimbledons including 4 years with the back-to-back in the same year is the greatest of all lifetime achievements in the sport. He also said that if he had won RG, he could be thrown in the mix of the very top echelon of the greatest players of all time i.e. Laver, Borg, and Sampras.

IF Federer wins Sunday, he still does not have the all-tme credentials, but no men's player has ever dominated the tour the way Federer has in the past 2.5 years.
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post #15 of 75 (permalink) Old 06-09-2006, 10:34 PM
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Re: Johnny Mac states that if Fed wins RG, he's the best ever: wrong!!!

Opinions cannot be "wrong" - if Johnny Mac thinks that, it's his right, but he's not "wrong." where's Brian (and his sig) when we need him.

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