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Davis Cup loss needs to ignite fire in David Goffin

4K views 42 replies 25 participants last post by  Roger the Dodger 
#1 ·
David Goffin can win the French Open one day but if he wants to be a top player he needs to improve. This Davis Cup loss is sad David looked so miserable in the ceremony. Goffin needs to improve his serve and get physically stronger. Ferrer is also not tall but he is in incredible physical shape. David Goffin looks like a waif he is so thin for a male tennis pro. If Goffin wants to move up from number 16 in the rankings he will have to do more off court gym work.
 
#3 ·
Goffin has never been able to challenge the top players, never. (Though he can keep the losses close sometimes.) He's really done well to get as high and do as well as he has, and should be proud of what he's achieved, but if you're thinking he'll be able to morph into a challenger for the Big 4, well... I highly doubt it.
 
#4 ·
If you look at his results, you can see he is improving. If he can keep it up, improve on his nerves and his serve, he will actually stand a chance in the future. However at the moment he just doesn't believe he can, combined with his first serve problem make it difficult. He needs to realize that he is a top20 player and start believing in himself.
 
#6 ·
#7 ·
I don't see enough god damn fucking fire and brimstone from this guy to be any more than he is
 
#11 ·
Yeah, and Millwall will win Champions League too, only if they get physical stronger ... err ... nevermind.
 
#13 ·
Wow, that's shoddy capitalization from a professional media outlet...
 
#20 ·
He has become a much better player then he was in 2012, you can't compare that...
 
#16 ·
He's an inferior and physically weaker version of Nishikori with more variety and a slightly better first serve while sharing a similarly woeful 2nd serve. I can see him scraping the top 10 next year. He's turning 25 next month so lots of time for him to improve while the top 4 decline. HE needs more of a mean streak but you can't deny that he's come a LONG LONG way since Wimby 2014 where just looked like a challenger level mug. It's also unfortunate that he hasn't faced a guy in the top 10 who'd match up favourably (think guys like Gasquet, Ferrer, Berdych)...he could get confidence from winning against tier-ii top 10 guys like Nishikori did a few years ago.
 
#18 ·
He's an inferior and physically weaker version of Nishikori with more variety and a slightly better first serve while sharing a similarly woeful 2nd serve. I can see him scraping the top 10 next year. He's turning 25 next month so lots of time for him to improve while the top 4 decline. HE needs more of a mean streak but you can't deny that he's come a LONG LONG way since Wimby 2014 where just looked like a challenger level mug. It's also unfortunate that he hasn't faced a guy in the top 10 who'd match up favourably (think guys like Gasquet, Ferrer, Berdych)...he could get confidence from winning against tier-ii top 10 guys like Nishikori did a few years ago.
He has faced them... And lost to all of them.
Goffin is currently 1-23 against top-10 players in his career.
He has lost not only to Federer, Djokovic, Murray, Wawrinka, Nishikori... Also to Ferrer, Berdych, Tsonga, Dimitrov, Monaco, Tipsarevic, Isner...
His only win was against Raonic.
Some of those names are very brief visitors to the top-10.
Today he played really well, but when it was a crucial point, he failed... Always.
I think he's incredibly talented, but he folds under pressure. He's done well getting to #16... I don't see him getting a higher ranking and keeping it, to be honest.
 
#23 · (Edited)
IGNITION

The second last shot in the DC match against Murray defines the problem he will face with the top players. Goffin hit a beautiful FH DTL there but Murray sprinted way too fast and returned it with interest, AND won the very next point and DC with a lob that might have been chased by anyone from that "Top 4", whatever be the result. The way Goff strolled up to the ball and let go of DC pretty much summed up how far he is from the top-4 and what a wall to climb that is.

Federer, Nadal, Djokovic and Murray raised the game by notches when they played each other (circa 2006-2010). So much so, that every other player outside their circle found them at a different level altogether. Nadal in special made it so physical - a challenge that only Djokovic and Murray rose up to - only eventually, and their efforts paid dividends in their own games vs other players. The Murray we saw yesterday was a constructed Murray. Its the version of "Muscle" Murray who first came back and won the 5-set match against Gasquet in 2008 Wimbly, from 2 sets down when no one thought he had the mental in him. That penultimate shot by Goffin against any other player outside Murray, Djokovic and Nadal might have been a sure winner but Murray got the ball in with interest, and won the match with a lob. To me, what is common in the top four is great Drive that makes them want to keep getting better. A Drive that was cumulatively built together by fierce competition against each other. Each one of the four improved the other to rise at a level in their game that is exceptional. Now...

Lets put aside the possibility of Goffin winning slams. That is irrelevant anyway for where he is now as an athlete. If Goffin really wants to take it to the next level - Top 10 from where he can consistently get the kind of matches that might prepare him for any greatness (and he can - he has a good deal of talent and variety, and a decent amount of humility, open-mindedness and introspection compared to most of his age group), he'll need to be more fit, possess more will power, create momentum in the match from the word GO (like Nadal playing for his life when score is 0-0), and basically give up the comfy lure of the tennis-star life he enjoys now, and go train more and more. There's lots to improve on - physically (in terms of endurance - Murray clearly looked fresher of the two); gaining strength, endurance to go on for hours, regulated diet; & mentally; (thinking positive on court, thinking on the run during the match (not letting the body-tiredness ruin strategy and intent), calming the nerves, and most importantly believing in his talent. Its a long road, but its the one worth taking. Or else, go the way of Baghdatis.

There is no finish line in a quest for perfection (unless you want to draw one), so let the comforts that appear in the way only be a part of the journey to becoming a better player than one is yesterday, instead of becoming already one's reward for having entered into top-20. Yet, it is for him to choose.

Focus. Energy. Resilience. These are not gifts one is born with like one's best talents. They are a product of Discipline. These are not easy to train in oneself either. They require Sacrifice of one's present comforts and wants. Yet, it is for him to choose.

As he came from a #200+ whom no one believed would one day become Top 20, he already knows some of what it takes to get there. But that was principally an output of his talent. Now, if he needs to take it another level, he'll need to raise the threshold of each "limit" again. And these highest peaks are even tougher to scale, as the margins are narrower, for now he'll need to rely not on talent alone but high discipline, OR he'll keep losing to better players and depend on them to have an off-day; but true discipline doesn't rely on your opponent's defects. Goffin has to answer this question to himself - does he have it in him to go another level up; is he willing to sacrifice the comfortable life of a Top-20 player he has gained, and the million bucks already earned for more sweat, more discipline; will he be still content to keep walking on the immeasurable Road of Progress even if there are no immediate or "visible" results (as is very often the case in "fine-tuning" one's talents). If he does choose to do what it takes to push the boundaries of his athleticism, he WILL be rewarded, and when it comes, whenever that be, it will appear in multiple areas of his personality. Where and when the fruits of discipline become second-nature, he will not know. Brilliance previously witnessed in flashes will then be the norm.

Yet, it is for him to choose. Does he really want it? Is he prepared for more climb?

As a fan of his beautiful game, I can only hope for him to quit the comfy life of top-20 - there's nothing quite boring as sitting on rewards - So all I'll say is, Go hunter, go, and string your bow, for in your hunt for perfection alone is your true comfort as an athlete.

Raise the level. Work. Sweat. Endure. Burn.
 
#24 · (Edited)
david has tried adding more muscle to add power to his shots, that was one of the things he worked on during the last off season. He has had close games with top guys and he really should have beaten djokovic in cinci this year. what he needs is to work with someone to help increase his mental strength because its always the big points when he fails against these guys. i dont think its his game thats holding him back its the mental side.if he could get mentally tougher i think we'll see him start to beat some of those top 10 guys


more importantly though i'd like to see this davis cup win ignite evans and ward, more so evans so he can push himself into the top 100 next season.
 
#25 ·
david has tried adding more muscle to add power to his shots, that was one of the things he worked on during the last off season. He has had close games with top guys and he really should have beaten djokovic in cinci this year. what he needs is to work with someone to help increase his mental strength because its always the big points when he fails against these guys. i dont think its his game thats holding him back its the mental side.if he could get mentally tougher i think we'll see him start to beat some of those top 10 guys
The "muscle" I meant was a bit metaphorical as well.

I meant his overall fitness levels (overall physical endurance, speed, stamina over lengths of sustained play) have to improve by another whole level. And the mental muscles. Also, Will-power etc.

What I saw yesterday was Goffin thinking and executing some very good plans (which is why I like watching him!), but though he was able to stretch Murray and drag him out of his comfort zone (and Murray wasn't enjoying being toyed at all, especially by that forehand CC which he took on the rise and kept low to Murray's BH), still he couldn't cause a strong dent in Murray's confidence or momentum.

Instead, I saw Clayray chasing everything down while Goffin who's game on clay was supposed to be better, just wasn't quick enough to get to the balls that he should have. To give an example, his reaction to Murray's dropshots were so slow.

I am even willing to say - just to emphasize on the difference in fitness levels, if Goffin had the day off, he still wouldn't have won. Maybe lost in 4 tight sets instead of straights.
 
#29 ·
As the first sentence of the first post is how Goffin can win a French Open, I think it's instructive to look at where active slam winners were at when they were Goffin's age.

Basically, he's way, way behind the big 4 and Cilic, in terms of career accomplishments by age 24-about-to-be-25. He's roughly even with Wawrinka (He's won two tournaments and at this stage Stan had only won one, but Stan had 7 finals, including two 500s and an 1000; Goffin has one 500 final and the other four are 250s). Further, Goffin went from 2-1 in finals in 2014 to 0-2 in 2015.

So while anything can happen, history is not on Goffan's side WRT becoming elite or even a single slam winner.
 
#32 ·
Goffin is too thin I know he is slim but he needs to get physically stronger he has the body of a teenager not of a grown man. Ferrer look at him smaller than Goffin but he has a six pack. Goffin also gets tired in long matches needs to improve fitness if he wants to be top 10.
 
#34 ·
Was he expected to beat Andy or something? Are people for real?
I think it's more like, this is the last, last, last meaningful match for over a month (an eternity in tennis, especially to couch potato/antisocial fans who just sit around on the computer all day), so we not only wanted it to be exciting, but we deluded ourselves into thinking it could or SHOULD be exciting, when in reality you're right: Murray with an easy win was always the most likely scenario.
 
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#39 ·
As far as "Ignition" is concerned, Goffin has shown he has enough fire in him. He is certainly not content to sit on his achievements and has the temperament of a student of the game which is great for the fans of his beautiful and varied shotmaking! :D
Aim for Perfection, and results will show! :devil:

This IW and Miami, I saw some of the best tennis from him, several times reaching out to GOATfin levels though the high moments were at times marred by inconsistency, except for the match against Troicki where he was sublime through the match. Now I am very interested to see how the rest of the year pans out for him. Here are my takeaways:

1. The victory over Stan seems like a turning point, as far as confidence is concerned. The fact that he straight-setted Cilic the very next match shows he wasn't over-the-moon about his win. This, despite Stan's level being bit below average, is something worth noticing. Even defeating Simon convincingly, his "flow" into the next match with Djokovic was awesome. The level was high in the first set, ball-striking and timing were sublime, till CHOKEfin appeared.
2. The net game is a problem: There is clearly much to improve here. When he broke Novak in the first set, I don't know what overcame him to serve and volley the next two points :rolleyes:. The whole game was squandered away cheaply and Novak passed him every time IIRC. Had he continued with the strategy that worked in the first few games, he might have gone up 5-3. Instead we had a tie-break and again, he constructed the point very creatively and then CHOKEfin appeared. The only other player I have seen screw simple putaways is Roger Federer. The way I see it, this happens because our sweet David, like his Bedroom Goderer, has a high Tennis IQ and play with lots of imagination. He is always trying out different things, but while this is immensely useful in constructing points and varied angles, at the time of closing the point at the net, the only thing that matters is putting the ball as far as possible from the opponent. I mean its not choosing between the whole 31 flavors of Baskin and Robins, but more like going for Vanilla. Nadal always goes for Vanilla and he never screws up shit like this. Just thump it hard and away from the opponent, dude!!! That indecision cost him the bloody set :( and as it was 1 hr 15 min, who knows winning it might have motivated him to find another gear and win the second. Instead, he gave up mentally, and of course, that only aids external factors such as humidity to get to him.
3. While he seems to show more bulk, his legs were clearly tired. Yes, losing the first set surely wore him down but this will repeatedly happen against the top players. I mean, he's facing the world #1, he has the best seat in the house, he's got to try and prolong the moment and squeeze everything he can out of the match. He should know he can chillax the next ten days but he'll face Novak, Roger, RAfa and Murray like what, 3-4 times a year(?). If he wants to come to the top, he's got to throw everything at them. And they might still win. But you have to have your mental fortitude backed up with a body that is willing to go the distance.

----

For the time being, this much feedback is enough. I do think he's already showing signs of rising above the journeyman level for good, which was my fear as a fan of his beautiful game (that he'll fade away like Baghdatis). His mind will get stronger as he defeats more high-ranked peers. But his mental for now isn't that bad (it appears worse than it actually is!) and its more important for him to sustain his mental level, gain strength from the recent performances, and most importantly, train for a body that can support whatever mental strength he has acquired so far.

Thanks for a great two weeks, David! Keep raising the bar :worship:
 
#43 · (Edited)
EXPECTATIONS FROM RG THROUGH WIMBLEDON

Ever since that overhead smash fiasco against Djokovic in Miami earlier this year, I have carefully been observing that aspect of David's game, and from whatever matches I have seen, I am happy to report a 100% success on those sitters. Indeed it seems the lessons from that loss hit him hard enough to hopefully never miss another easy overhead smash again, esp. on the big occasions!

Another observation which a few of us fans have similarly made is that through the clay season, he seemed to be able to grind out matches that he didn't get any momentum from. We saw that particularly in his wins against Lopez and Verdasco at Monte Carlo. But it took the toll when he lost to Granollers, and where he was similarly out of touch but fighting through. His sluggishness and early exits followed in Munich and Madrid, except that in Madrid while playing Pouille, there was a vast difference in the way he began the match and how it ended for him. The second and third sets saw the kind of Goffin we want to see more of - the aggression was there, he was painting the lines, hitting deep, creating angles consistently, and though he choked the match to Pouille (who played awesome!), I think Goff understood the real level he needs to sustain to remain competitive at the top. This is exactly the kind of loss a top player can learn from.

Come Rome, we saw him continue closer to where he left off with Pouille, winning matches against Mayer and Sock. But the crowning glory of his sustained aggressive style came as we all know, in the Berdych match, where he was so "zoned in" to his own game from the first point, that nothing could go wrong; a match eerily similar to Federer's double bagel of Del Potro AO 09. And though he began the match in the same vein against Murray, he still lost - but again, there's things he always can and ideally should already have taken from this loss.

To begin with, the easiest way to get a report card on your improvement is to go battle a top player. They will be merciless and break all your delusions because they are the ones that play for glory - those are the names that are remembered generations after others have come and gone. And in the field of pro players, you have to earn that privilege to get that report card, by playing match-by-match till you finally play them. I don't even care if his H2H against the 4-6 top players remains terminally lopsided; if by playing them, he is reminded of the mental and physical standards he must sustain to himself remain at the top, he must hope to play them more and more, for his own abilities will get better by that exposure, and he will surely arrive at the top ten and naturally become impervious to the players ranked below him.

Regarding the Rome match, Murray as such is a bad match up for Goffin, but he did manage to break Murray thrice in the match. Irrespective of the outcome, he was playing aggressive which is a very good sign, because this attitude is what will work to quickly dispatch players he shouldn't be going into endless battles with: players like Granollers who lose the very next match. So here's hoping Goffin will keep this new level, practice more with this newfound aggression in mind, concentrating point by point and going boldly for his shots because that's his personal best level - his "base level" to sustain in order to be a top 5-10 player. And while we appreciate that he can grind out the matches he's not totally focused on as we saw early in clay season; his concentration itself must improve so that he reaches more naturally to his best level. He has the fire, he has the talent - he just has to become consistently as good as he can, and the more he will play at that level we saw later in Rome, the more he'll earn the privilege to play top players, and the more he'll naturally be zoned more often in that the exquisite state of "flow" where nothing can go wrong.

---

As for the current RG line up, he has a very good chance to play Nadal on clay. But he has to give full attention to four opponents before that can even happen. "One slip and down the hole we fall," as Pink Floyd sang...

Rd 1 has Barrere whom he has never played. Barrere could be tricky, but I'm hoping David comes through playing aggressively, and with full concentration, without grinding. This should be a pro job in straights.
Rd 2 is either Lorenzi whom he convincingly defeated before or 33 year old Warlocq, which might be fun. Straights please!
Rd 3 is most likely Kohli who won Munich and is a proven warrior on clay. This might well go to four sets, but if Goffin plays aggressively, he has the added advantage of being younger, and also quicker feet and might finish earlier. H2H is 2-1 in Goff's favor.
Rd 4 should be Tsonga, but he has had the upper hand on Tsonga of late (H2H is 2-3 in Tsonga's favor). This might be another long match but Tsonga never played this latest version of Goffin. If Goffin does play his best tennis, might be something special again.

For this RG though, to get his first QF would itself be great. Everything else including the fantasy of defeating Nadal on clay is pure cream we can indulge in once he gets there. But really, the first four rounds are challenging, winnable, and most relevantly to his fans (who want him to be rid of his sluggishness for good) already the victories we really want from him without giving us shudders. Hope Goff delivers. Of course, I'm sure his fans will be his fans even if he somehow doesn't win these 4 rounds, but greatness is not achieved by our fanfare, it is achieved by a step-by-step increment of the requisite skills so that he achieves in the end a new level of fulfillment, transcending where he used to be "fulfilled" before, and then to do it all over again as many times as one enjoys making progress.

Good luck David for RG and Wimbledon! Hope to see a new consistent level. :yeah:
 
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