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Oldrrer: Vulture 2.0

8K views 87 replies 42 participants last post by  Federer-Fan 
#1 · (Edited)
I haven't been paying attention to the ranking breakdowns of the top players in the last few years, but today it came to my attention how the exemptions from M1000s conceded to the veteran players can be exploited.

Ferrer at this moment is enjoying a Best of 9 Mickey Mouse tournaments, instead of just 6, take a look at this shit:

David Ferrer | Rankings Breakdown | ATP World Tour | Tennis



:worship::worship::worship::worship::worship:
 
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#2 ·
Quite atrocious :spit::spit:
 
#10 ·
For a younger player this would result in two 0-pointers from Toronto and Cinci which is not the case for Ferrer. Shanghai results aren't in yet and he played that one. I'll wait to see if he can have another tournament counting instead of Shanghai despite that he has played it.


I'll try to state the issue more clearly. Each player has 18+1 slots for countable tournaments for his ranking total (the +1 is the WTF). The allocation for commitment players* is the following:

- 4 for the Grand Slams
- 8 for the mandatory M1000s
- best of 6 among the other tournaments the player has played
(4+8+6=18)


Now, for players who have reached the following milestones, the following rules apply:

1.08 Reduction of ATP World Tour Masters 1000 Commitment

A. A player’s number of ATP World Tour Masters 1000 commitment tournaments shall be

reduced by one (1) tournament for reaching each of the following milestones:

1) 600 matches* (as of 1 January of the commitment year)

2) 12 years of service

3) 31 years of age (as of 1 January of the commitment year)

If all three (3) conditions are met then the player has a complete exemption from the ATP World Tour Masters 1000 player commitment.

The first Year of Service shall be the first calendar year in which a player has competed in at least twelve (12) tournaments offering ranking points.
I was actually wrong in the 3 exemptions, by fulfilling all 3, you're exempt from all M1000s, so as a commitment player you can actually have a ranking composed of 4 Slams + 14 Mickey Mouse tournaments.

In this article (Federer First To Enjoy Quirky ATP World Tour Rule - TenniShorts), the following is stated:
Our good friend Greg Sharko at the ATP World Tour Communications department does point out that if Federer chooses to skip a Masters 1000-level event he will receive a 0-pointer for not playing the tournament, but he will not be issued any penalty.
I'm not sure if Ferrer is avoiding the 0-pointers because the reason cited to skip the mandatories was an injury or not, but nevertheless it is an unfair advantage over the other players (the younger players cannot avoid the 0-pointer even if the reason is injury), not to mention that it shouldn't be too hard to collude with some friendly doctor to say that you are indeed injured (in case the injury excuse is needed to avoid the 0-pointer).

Can Litotes and Co. shed a light on this issue?



*A commitment player is a player who has finished inside top 30 in the previous season.
 
#4 ·
I'm angry about the fact Ferrer is ahead of Tsonga in the race to London.

Grand Slam points in 2015 :
Tsonga - 1170
Ferrer - 630

Masters points in 2015 :
Tsonga - 1050
Ferrer - 990

Other tournaments points in 2015 :
Tsonga - 280
Ferrer - 1825

This really shows Ferrer is a vulture of the highest order. In other news, sky is blue...
 
#8 ·
The biggest vulture of all-time, as unbiased analysts have been pointing out on this forum for over 3 years now.

Rankings: 2190 out of 3945 points are from MM events (55,5%)
Race to London: 1860/3445 (54,5%)

And it's really Mickey Mouse, it's not like these points coming from strong optional events, but rather from the events where you face Fognini, Harrison and Haider-Maurer in the later stages. Oh well, at least we real tennis fans will get to enjoy his yet another undeserved WTF qualification be exposed again next month.
 
#9 ·
All this while Nishikori has over 2000 points from small tournaments :worship::worship:
 
#13 · (Edited)
Tsonga with 270 points from 250s and 500s :spit: That's not even top-100-worthy.

I don't want to spoil your circlejerk, but it's 4 under 1000 points events against 7. Ferrer's had obviously much easier competition (Berdych, Nishikori against GOATs like Gruntollers or Halder-Mugrer), but Tsonga could've done better, especially at 500s. Ferrer has played only 1 more 250, Tsonga's inability to focus on something less than Masters is hurting him WTF-qualification-wise.
 
#16 · (Edited)
Yes I'm a fan of Tsonga, which is why I checked Ferrer's ranking breakdown to see if he could add more points to the race from Valencia (I think it's the only non-mandatory he is playing till the end of the season). But then I was surprised to see that in the rankings he is enjoying 3 more MMs than normal and in the race, 2 more. I think not awarding a 0-pointer for veteran players is an unfair advantage over the younger guys, regardless of who is at stake. The rule was made so that the veterans could have a lighter schedule without having to pay fines and have bureaucracy thrown at them for missing a mandatory event, it was not made so you could play more small tournaments and get compensanted for it.


Btw, I once detected an error in Ferrer's ranking total points (I'm not sure if it was him, could have been Berdych or Tsonga) which I e-mailed ATP and they corrected the error. This was back in 2012 when Tsonga and Ferrer were fighting for the #5 rank.
 
#15 ·
It`s not Ferrer`s fault that Tsonga doesn`t play well on under 1000 tournaments. Also, 70% of Tsonga`s points are often from 1-3 good tournament runs in a year. If he is better, then he must show that constantly, not in every blue moon. Most of you guys take the best performance possible from those streaky ballbashers and consider that their norm of play. It is exception much more than a rule.
 
#22 · (Edited)
Jesus Christ, this vulturing rule was actually implemented this year and veterans can indeed replace a maximum of 3 M1000s for 3 MMs, no injury needed.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/~/media/files/rulebook/2015/2015-atp-rulebook_sept15.pdf

*NOTE: A player who is eligible for a reduction of his ATP World Tour Masters 1000
commitment tournaments per Section 1.08 who withdraws prior to the withdrawal
deadline and uses his exemption may have the number of his results from all other
eligible tournaments in the ranking period, that count for his ranking, increased by
one (1) for each milestone reached with a maximum of three (3).
(bottom of page 196)

The rule was discussed in http://www.menstennisforums.com/2-general-messages/236585-live-atp-rankings-thread-68.html thread.

And ofc, the energizer bunny is reaping the benefits to no end.
 
#23 ·
Jesus Christ, this vulturing rule was actually implemented this year and veterans can indeed replace a maximum of 3 M1000s for 3 MMs, no injury needed.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/~/media/files/rulebook/2015/2015-atp-rulebook_sept15.pdf


(bottom of page 196)

The rule was discussed in http://www.menstennisforums.com/2-general-messages/236585-live-atp-rankings-thread-68.html thread.

And ofc, the energizer bunny is reaping the benefits to no end.
Maximum of three is a lot.
 
#25 ·
Wow, that's complete news to me. I had no idea they could replace the skipped M1000... This is a ridiculously bad idea at a time when tennis is suffering from a lack of youngsters! A completely unfair rule... Now I finally understand how Ferrer has so many points despite his awful year!
 
#28 ·
Okay, I completely don't understand this thread. Maybe I don't know how to read the ATP rankings pages.

At this moment, Ferrer is more than 1,000 points over the next person behind him in both the rankings and the race. Even if you were to take away 2 tournaments (180 for Valencia and 150 for Vienna... so 330 points), he'd still maintain his position, no one would pass him, and certainly not Tsonga. So what exactly is your problem? :confused:
 
#34 ·
Those 330 pts and ability to gain even more from MM tournaments is my problem. This goes for every player in his position, not just Ferrer.

As I showed before, without this new rule, Tsonga could qualify with a win in Vienna and a SF in Bercy which is in the realm of reasonable if he avoids Djokovic.
 
#31 ·
I really want to take Tsonga's side, but in this case he has no one else but himself to blame. Although he did skip AO and IW, he didnt capitulate in smaller tournaments that he's entered (Beijing, Barcelona, WS, for example). Ferrer in the other hand also skipped Wimbledon and had his absence in Cincy replaced by QF points from Beijing. And the spaniard has only played one more tournament that the french. Even if we substract those points there are still 720 points gap between these two. Tough to overcome

I just hope Jo will improve his ranking post AO so he'll be better seeded for the rest of 2016. Between him and Ferrer, Jo is proven to pose more threat to the top players.
 
#32 ·
Logic, not even once.
 
#42 ·
Can't blame him for joining tournaments without the Top 5 to get wins. :shrug:
 
#49 ·
The group mobing of the first page... :spit: You guys are beyond ridiculous.

He's been injured for a long time and has clearly declined, so he wins points where he can. It's not exactly vulturing, given the conditions, it's more 'doing what he can with what he currently has'. Some players should take note.
 
#50 ·
I'm not criticising Ferrer, I'm praising him, his level of vulturing for his age is quite remarkable. I'm criticising the rule that was implemented this year which does not enforce 0-pointers on M1000s exemptions.
 
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