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Is Djokovic that good or Federer that bad?

4K views 47 replies 33 participants last post by  Boss 
#1 ·
In 2013 many including me thought that Federer was essentially done after failing to win any big title (GS, M1000, WTF etc) and producing poor results against players many know he would have beaten in the past. Nonetheless, he dusted himself off and got to work having hired Edberg to be his coach. This produced a string of stunning victories and led to numerous titles from 2014 to 2015. He has beaten numerous of his rivals all apart from one in the biggest stages. Lets examine below -

Federer's main rivals since 2013

1) Nadal - 0 - 1
2) Murray - 5 - 0
3) Wawrinka - 5 - 2
4) Djokovic - 5 - 7

Federer stats since 2014 (Finals and Titles) -

11 Finals in 2014, his most since his 2007 season (1 250, 2 500, 2 M1000 & 1 GS Final)

9 Finals in 2015 (2 250, 2 500 and 1 M1000, 2 GS Finals)

His finals record vs Djokovic during 2014/2015 period -

2 - 6

Federer has beaten Djokovic in 1 Masters 1000 Final and 1 Dubai 500 Final.

Djokovic has beaten Federer in

1) 3 Masters 1000 Finals
2) 3 GS Finals
3) 1 WTF (Walkover for Novak)

So basically Federer has shown he can beat the rest of the tour and his main rivals with ease at times (Wimbledon 2015 against Murray, Wimbledon 2014 and US Open 2015 with Stan) but against Novak Federer is simply facing a player who refuses to lose on the biggest stages (like Nadal) and now Federer is facing a mental block against Novak similar to the Rafa situation.

Make of it what you will but this dude could have been on 18 - 20 slams if he had beat Novak in one of those finals.
 
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#4 ·
Federer has never been able to grasp a hold on one of his main rivals. Prior to 2011 Nadal was considered the biggest threat, a matchup Federer just couldnt deal with. Now again Federer fails to deliver against the biggest threat today. It seems to me Federer was never the best player on tour.
 
#7 ·
Novak plays nothing special this year. It is obvious for everyone who has eyes. Tons of his shots land short in the court, he ends most of his matches having negative W/UE ratio. Come on, Federer had 23 break points in the USO final and converted only 4 of them. The majority of of the rest he wasted with UEs, hesitation from the baseline and desperate net rushes after approaching like Roddick. Federer's decline started in 2013 and it is still proceeding, but he slowed it when he changed his racquet and based his game on the serve. It works on the 99% of the tour (cause they are all mugs), but it doesnt work on Djokovic, because he can return and keep the ball in play and wait for Federer's implosion. Federer is not capable of playing at the highest level from the baseline throughout the whole match anymore and you have to if you want to win against Djokovic.
 
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#10 ·
Federer has declined. Novak is nothing special this year. Even 2012 Federer would beat 2015 Novak in all their big matches.
 
#11 · (Edited)
Novak is nothing special this year. Even 2012 Federer would beat 2015 Novak in all their big matches.
This mentally strong Serveovic is Nole's second-highest level ( 2011). Federer wouldn't be beating anything. He's Mr. 1-slam-in-5.5-years for a reason.

Nole has better tactics now and is just better at not having to do "too much." He often times treats matches as practice sessions. He looks bored so often and doesn't really try his hardest. He also has better court positioning and is more efficient at ending points quicker and not having to do as much running.

Nole has made every slam and masters final because he's that good. Just deal with it.
 
#14 ·
He didn't grab number 1 from Federer. He grabbed it from Nadal - who won 3 slams a year before and would've done so again had Nole not singlehandedly stopped him - and then turned Federer into #3.

That's what happened.
Pointless trying to argue facts with some!
You'd think these people would at least try to get their facts straight before saying this stuff.


Shows you they're just driven by hate and jealousy.
 
#15 ·
Federer is 34 or 35 or whatever. and he's been declined arguably since like 2010 or so with his serve being one of the few parts of his game thats not that weakened
 
#23 ·
Actually, his serve even improved somehow, just re-watch the WB SF this year. Why couldn't he produce that level in the Olympics final in 2012? Serving is not "tiring" baseline rallying, you know.

Your analysis has declined as well.
That is not some personal insult, but hey, just try to be more descriptive as a die-hard Fed fan :grin2:
 
#20 ·
LOL. Dude, I don`t dispute facts, I am not Federer fan to do that. I just said that dinosauruss living in ancient history shouldn`t take time from the people living in the present. Go and enjoy in those 2003-2007 matches. Djokovic has a path of his own, and I don`t get off on slam counts alone, too.
 
#26 ·
Ok, considering that you are the most boring Nadaltard here, just let me have it that way:

no more intimidating factors for Rafito.
Just come back when he manages to beat a Top10 player not named Ferrer or Berdych, his 2 pigeons.

Even they are not frightened of the Mallorcan bull anymore, so they slaughtered him at least once in the last 18 months.
 
#25 ·
"That bad" heh, come back when Grindovic makes b2b slam finals at 33+.

As for the stats lol, Olderer nowadays doesn't have the stamina to beat Djokovic in a bo5 set match, how the fuck is this news? The lack of competition helps Federer reach the final but by then he doesn't have enough in the tank, unless he beats Novak in straights which is extremely difficult against the #1.
 
#31 ·
Djokovic is a better player than Federer now. It's really that simple :lol:
 
#34 · (Edited)
^By that logic, he could/should won in 3 or 4. Ok. Why doesn`t he do that then, if his BO5 is (still) extraordinary?? Bcs you indirectly said that he have stamina for 4 sets and his record is great, only 5th is a problem. His USO and Wimbledon were in 4 sets, and he does have the stamina for 4 sets, but somehow "cant win bcs stamina issues"? Sounds legit on a first glance, but when you disect that claim, it is obvious that that story is pure BS and that he won bcs he is inferior player. He can win at smaller tournaments that Novak doesn`t really care about, but when it really matters, he is not in the same league.
 
#36 ·
Not in the same league :superlol: Didn't he waste 20 break points in that USO final? I think Novak would disagree with you. Novak is not in full control against Federer (unlike when he plays Nadal), he's never been.

If Roger wants to beat Novak in a slam these days then he has to do it in straights, which I already said is very difficult. If he loses the first set it's pretty much over. And yes it's a stamina issue.

Now stop being so fucking butthurt please and accept that Roger is old and nothing No1e can do now will change that.
 
#37 · (Edited)
Your perception is flawed at best if you consider me butthurt. I don`t give a flying fuck about Rogie`s BO5 record or supposed goat status, but i do care about telling it like it is.

Losing 20 BPs is a proof for my point, not vice-versa. Federer needed crowd support+Novak`s mental lapses (often for him+crowd fucked him up at least 10 times except when it trully mattered) to go to 4. He needed mental lapses again in Wimbledon final (7 SP lost from Novak) just to not be straight setted, but sure, he was in control...of the speed of the defeat, fast or very fast

Also, that notion of "being in control" actually doesn`t mean shit, and even if it does, it isn`t important (hence the results). First of all, how is it on Federer`s racquet if he doesn`t have stamina (sets 4 and 5 are out of his reach, so how is that control)? Or don`t have plan B (in a sense that he is and always was too serve dependant)? Or that he isn`t better baseliner than Novak at least 5 years (probably 7+)? In what sense he is "under his control"? In a sense that he will always go broke, even from unfavorable position, trying to hit a winner (which is bad tactic generally)? Going for S&V and praying that you don`t get passed is under control (or is it gambling of sorts, that your oponent doesn`t hit good return)? Can someone please explain to me in what sense is Federer in control? He can`t even impose his gamestyle to Novak, and is often dragged into baseline rallies (which he doesn`t want, but OK, he is in control). Sure, few games here and there he blitzes (as do Novak sometimes), but overall, amount of running that he does in a single game vs Novak is much longer than his average. Also, OK, he is old. Should we discount those wins vs Djokovic when Novak was too young at 18-20? And also discount Federer`s victories after he turned 30 bcs "he is old and bad, therefore he won by luck"? Or will we create win-win situation for Fedtards and count those, bcs when he wins at 34, it is "a blast from the past, flash of old genius", not the other guy playing bad?

If he is too old, then he should retire. It isn`t other players fault that he has 34, he wasn`t lock on to win it even when he was 24-27 and Djokovic, Murray and Nadal were 19-21. If anything, his birth date gave him much succsess during 2003-2007. If Nadal was born in 1981, Federer would have 4-6 slams max
 
#39 ·
Look, I'm a Federer fan, but all that matters is who wins and who loses. Everything else is just talk.

Federer's position in the game is absolutely cemented. It's really not necessary to start threads like this. There is no doubt he could have won more Slams, but he's come up against some very tough players and hasn't quite managed it yet. Maybe he'll win more, maybe he won't.

Djokovic is at the peak of his powers and deserves his position in the game. There is no doubt that Federer could have won that US Open final, and should at the very least have pushed it to five sets. But he didn't so there's no point talking about it.

We're lucky that Federer is still around and playing possibly the best tennis we've seen from a 34 year-old. I'm just going to enjoy it. If he wins, great, if he doesn't then he's won plenty in the past. If Djokovic or Nadal go past his records, good luck to them.
 
#41 ·
Federer just proves how good he is even at this stage of his career.
You can not play 14 years at the same level and just winning ,winning. I like his interview a lot and for the first time he said what he needed to say a long time ago. In 2009 he was pressed to retire after eventually he won FO . He was in all GSF' in 2009 and at age of 28. As he said they were interested only in my retirement since then . That is why he stopped winning but was in SF' or QF'. So he was always in public and that was his way to keep his popularity. It is funny that at the same age Djokovic winning everything and no one says he needs to retire. No one puts pressure on Djokovic to ask him when he is going to win FO every single time.
 
#42 ·
I'm a bit late to the discussion and someone probably already mentioned it, but it's actually very simple: Performance-wise, there's no real difference between those two. Djokovic is better on slow-mid surfaces because he's the superior baseline player, whereas Federer is better on faster surfaces since Djokovic has trouble dealing with his aggression.

The main difference in their GS finals was mental stability. For some reason, Federer is terrible when it comes to using his break chances. It was always one of his weaknesses, but seems to have gotten worse in the last few years. There's no "mental block" since he often delivers great matches; he simply can't handle those situations well enough, otherwise he probably would've won the USO 2015 and Wimbledon 2014 finals. Djokovic seems to love those situations and while he creates fewer break points, he uses most of them.

tl;dr: A little of both.
 
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