Sampras's Era vs Federer's Era - Confronted once and for all. - MensTennisForums.com
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post #1 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-25-2005, 06:58 PM Thread Starter
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Sampras's Era vs Federer's Era - Confronted once and for all.

Lots of people have it in their minds that simply because Roger hasn't struggled or doesn't regulary endure 5-set matches, torturing his fanbase and supplying thrilling shot after thrilling shot, that his competition is obsolete in comparison to Pete's era. Roger is the type of player that would prefer to coast and relax, save his best play for later, he's able to play the big points so well that he saves his body time & energy. Sampras was the same way, especially in his earlier years and I don't think really much of anyone could push him to anything beyond 4 sets, I mean, it wasn't an impossibility, but he dismissed Andre in 4 sets more times than I can count. Actually, straight sets. If anything, Roger's excellence is a mark of just how high he has set the standard for tennis right now.

Let's compare the players that Pete had to deal with in earlier portions of his career:
Lendl(Skill was drastically declining), McEnroe(Old and beaten up), Chang, Edberg (actually losing to him in the only final they played), Connors (not much competition there either)

Tennis is going through a transition, it takes time, especially after an era has been dominated by one player for youngster players to construct their games based on more modern standards. Lendl dominated the 80's, then he died and Pete showed up, he beat a lot of nobodies and old men on the way. Roger has only truly dominated tennis for 2 years, his competition has been above average and maybe even who knows, during another time and place. Better than the 90's. We do know that the return game on the men's side has improved drastically (through technology), players are far more athletic than they ever were and it seems like everyone this day in age aside from clay courters possess a big serve.

Below are Pete's titles, I put into bold the ones that don't prove much of anything. I mean, if you want to base those same standards on Roger's performance. Look how easily Pete dispatched of Jim Courier in the Wimbledon final, what's a guy like Courier doing in the Wimbledon finally anyway ? A primarily slow court player, that would be an impossibility based on today's demand of play. Also, the only player of any real significance that Pete faced early on in his reign (Stefan Edberg) well, beat him fairly routinely. Pete's career was beating up Andre in final after final, so why is Roger's competition any less because he beats up on Andy Roddick, Wimbledon final after final ? It's not. Cedric Pioline was a good player in his time, but U.S Open and Wimbledon are a stretch, both performances prove to be a product of the draw, because Pete just straight-setted him.
Wins (14)
Year Championship Opponent in Final Score in Final
1990 US Open Andre Agassi 6-4, 6-3, 6-2
1993 Wimbledon Jim Courier 7-6, 7-6, 3-6, 6-3
1993 US Open Cedric Pioline 6-4, 6-4, 6-3
1994 Australian Open Todd Martin 7-6, 6-4, 6-4
1994 Wimbledon Goran Ivanisevic 7-6, 7-6, 6-0
1995 Wimbledon Boris Becker 6-7, 6-2, 6-4, 6-2
1995 US Open Andre Agassi 6-4, 6-3, 4-6, 7-5
1996 US Open Michael Chang 6-1, 6-4, 7-6
1997 Australian Open Carlos Moya 6-2, 6-3, 6-3
1997 Wimbledon Cedric Pioline 6-4, 6-2, 6-4
1998 Wimbledon Goran Ivanesevic 6-7, 7-6, 6-4, 3-6, 6-2
1999 Wimbledon Andre Agassi 6-3, 6-4, 7-5
2000 Wimbledon Patrick Rafter 6-7, 7-6, 6-4, 6-2
2002 US Open Andre Agassi 6-3, 6-4, 5-7, 6-4



Runner-ups (4)
Year Championship Opponent in Final Score in Final
1992 US Open Stefan Edberg 3-6, 6-4, 7-6, 6-2
1995 Australian Open Andre Agassi 4-6, 6-1, 7-6, 6-4
2000 US Open Marat Safin 6-4, 6-3, 6-3
2001 US Open Lleyton Hewitt 7-6, 6-1, 6-1

Federer Slams:
2003 Wimbledon - Mark Phillipousis (Has always been a top quality performer on Grass, that's the year he took out Andre with 48 aces)
2004 Australian Open - Marat Safin (Superior to any player aside from Sampras from the 90's)
2004 Wimbledon - Andy Roddick (2nd best grass courter in plenty of generations with that serve)
2004 U.S Open - Llleyton Hewitt - Ex #1, showed an elder Sampras the door by beating him, over and over. Like a drum.
2005 Wimbledon - Andy Roddick
2005 U.S Open - Andre Agassi - Yes, he's 35, but his game isn't based on athletic ability. Never was and never will be. His technique is steady and I'm so tired of the argument that if an Old Agassi can be reaching Slam Finals, the field must be really lackluster. It's an injustice to Andre.

Fact of the matter is, we cannot compare era's, a lot of the things being said about Roger can be said about Pete's as well, with this new talent (Nadal, Gasquet, Berdych), also, I'd be willing to count Kuerten (obviously not new talent) as part of Roger's generation, the fact is Roger's generation possesses the more physically gifted athletes and a much different game is being played. You cannot be serious, if you think that a guy can serve & volley his way to 14 Slams this day in age, can't and won't happen. The ground game is too good now.

Nadal - Most physically talented to ever play on clay.
Kuerten - All due respect to Borg and his 6 FO titles, but Gustavo would dismantle him.
Safin - What other era were 6'5 200lbs players that actually had an all-court game playing in ? None.
Hewitt - Simply a better counter puncher than anyone you can name in a long time.

Roger is facing physically intimidating entities, that are armed with technology, making them even more effective. I haven't heard the argument on this board as much as others, but I just don't think the Sampras's Era was stronger argument holds much water. Sadly. Input?

Last edited by prima donna; 11-25-2005 at 08:53 PM.
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post #2 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-25-2005, 07:52 PM
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Re: Sampras's Era vs Federer's Era - Confronted once and for all.

I might take this more seriously if you hadn't dismissed Andre Agassi as an inconsequential player at Wimbledon when Pete was playing..but then argued that an older Andre is definitely a challenge to Roger. Plus, Goran at Wimbledon? And Pat Rafter? They aren't inconsequential. If you had counted more than the Grand Slams, it might be more valid. Also..considering Guga was largely injured during Roger's dominance, I don't understand why you're counting him as a major threat to Federer.

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post #3 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-25-2005, 07:58 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Sampras's Era vs Federer's Era - Confronted once and for all.

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Originally Posted by liptea
I might take this more seriously if you hadn't dismissed Andre Agassi as an inconsequential player at Wimbledon when Pete was playing
Dismissed Andre as inconsequential player ? Never. Actually, the argument that I made was that Roddick is to Roger, what Andre was to Pete. Maybe somewhere throughout my rambling, I wasn't 100% crystal clear on what was intended to be translated.

But, in any event, I've only used Andre as an ingredient to this argument that furtherly states: Who did Pete beat aside from Agassi ? How many of these finals came against him ? The only thing that I could ever dismiss Andre from is the Who's got hair club, because aside from that not only has he proven himself to be a legend, but he accomplished the Grand Slam, something Sampras couldn't do and why in my book he's only #3 of all-time, at best.

The only players that I dismiss are Courier, Pioline, Chang, Martin and Moya, the rest of the list is decent.
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post #4 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-25-2005, 08:26 PM
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Re: Sampras's Era vs Federer's Era - Confronted once and for all.

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Originally Posted by prima donna
2006 U.S Open - Andre Agassi - Yes, he's 35, but his game isn't based on athletic ability. Never was and never will be. His technique is steady and I'm so tired of the argument that if an Old Agassi can be reaching Slam Finals, the field must be really lackluster. It's an injustice to Andre.
2006? really :retard:
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post #5 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-25-2005, 08:55 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Sampras's Era vs Federer's Era - Confronted once and for all.

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Originally Posted by Mike Jones
2006? really :retard:
Hey, just because baldy (and I'm not talking about Agassi) didn't bother bringing it at another big event, doesn't warrant this type of rubbish. I feel your pain. Maybe next year. I mean, maybe next month. Davis Cup matters ... really!
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post #6 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-25-2005, 09:50 PM
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Re: Sampras's Era vs Federer's Era - Confronted once and for all.

Sampras vs Federer *yawn* *yawn*

Sampras was the best
McEnroe was the best
Connors was the best
Lendl was the best
Federer is the best

That's my comparison

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post #7 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-25-2005, 09:58 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Sampras's Era vs Federer's Era - Confronted once and for all.

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Originally Posted by George_Hanson

Sampras was the best
McEnroe was the best
Connors was the best
Lendl was the best
Federer is the best

That's my comparison
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post #8 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-25-2005, 10:10 PM
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Re: Sampras's Era vs Federer's Era - Confronted once and for all.

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Originally Posted by prima donna
Hey, just because baldy (and I'm not talking about Agassi) didn't bother bringing it at another big event, doesn't warrant this type of rubbish. I feel your pain. Maybe next year. I mean, maybe next month. Davis Cup matters ... really!
right on :retard:
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post #9 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-25-2005, 10:16 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Sampras's Era vs Federer's Era - Confronted once and for all.

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right on :retard:
How was Thanksgiving, or do they not celebrate such an American holiday at the Ljubicic household?
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post #10 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-25-2005, 10:20 PM
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Re: Sampras's Era vs Federer's Era - Confronted once and for all.

I think it is almost impossible to compare players of different periods. You can have the best in each period and analyse how much they dominated. Actually the decade most dominated by 1 player was the 60's by Rod Laver who won the grand slam both as amateur (best players who were professional where not eligible) and as a professional when all players were eligible. He was also the only player who managed domination on grass and clay (grand slam titles) and cement which was used on the professional circuit. 5 years in the middle of his career he could not play grand slams because he was professional. He won 11 grand slams, but how many could he have won? No other player seems to have managed such domination on all surfaces.
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post #11 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-25-2005, 10:21 PM
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Re: Sampras's Era vs Federer's Era - Confronted once and for all.

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How was Thanksgiving, or do they not celebrate such an American holiday at the Ljubicic household?
No i dont celebrate thangsgiving :retard:
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Re: Sampras's Era vs Federer's Era - Confronted once and for all.

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No i dont celebrate thangsgiving :retard:
Are you postponing it in case Croatia lose the Davis Cup final
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post #13 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-25-2005, 10:26 PM
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Re: Sampras's Era vs Federer's Era - Confronted once and for all.

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Are you postponing it in case Croatia lose the Davis Cup final
right on :retard:
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post #14 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-25-2005, 11:23 PM
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Re: Sampras's Era vs Federer's Era - Confronted once and for all.

Your statement that you can't compare eras might have been more compelling if you hadn't gone on to do just that by rubbishing Sampras' opposition, boosting Roger's and saying that Pete never would have won 14 slams in this era.

Let's have a fair look at Sampras' opposition

Wimbledon '93: Agassi, Becker, Courier
US Open '93: Chang, Pioline
Aus Open '94: Courier, Martin
Wimbledon '94: Chang, Martin, Ivanisevic
Wimbledon '95: Ivanisevic, Becker
US Open ''95: Martin, Courier, Agassi
US Open '96: Corretja, Ivanisevic, Chang
Aus Open '97: Muster, Moya
Wimbledon '97: Becker, Pioline
Wimbledon '98: Philippoussis, Henman, Ivanisevic
Wimbledon '99: Henman, Agassi
Wimbledon '00: Rafter
US Open '02: Roddick, Agassi

Wimbledon '03: Roddick, Philippoussis
Aus Open '04: Hewitt, Nalbandian, Ferrero, Safin
Wimbledon '04: Hewitt, Roddick
Us Open '04: Agassi, Henman, Hewitt
Wimbledon '05: Hewitt, Roddick
US Open '05: Hewitt, Agassi

So unless Hewitt, Safin, Ferrero, Roddick, Nalbandian and old Agassi are better than Becker, Courier, Rafter, Chang, Ivanisevic, Martin and young Agassi you're attempt to put Pete's opposition down is surely flawed.

Finally, surely you cannot be serious saying that Roddick is the equivalent of Agassi . Roddick is the equivalent of Ivanisevic, if anything.

Last edited by JeNn; 11-25-2005 at 11:28 PM.
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post #15 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-25-2005, 11:26 PM
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Re: Sampras's Era vs Federer's Era - Confronted once and for all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeNn
Your statement that you can't compare eras might have been more compelling if you hadn't gone on to do just that by rubbishing Sampras' opposition, boosting Roger's and saying that Pete never would have won 14 slams in this era.


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