In any other year, Nadal's year would have been the standout performance - MensTennisForums.com

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 112 (permalink) Old 10-27-2005, 04:45 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
R.Federer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 8,821
                     
In any other year, Nadal's year would have been the standout performance

1 slam, 4 TMS (on different surface), and 11 titles in all.... at 19! Would have been the single standout performance of the year. But.... Wertheim writes

Nadal's lament
Great year has been overshadowed by a certain Swiss

I've asked this before, but I thought I'd give it another shot since the timing seems right. How accurate do you think it is to put Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal on equal footing in terms of the years they have had (as many news sources seem to be doing)? How would you assess their respective successes this year? Who impresses more?
-- Ethan Steele, Stanford, Calif.

Many of you have been asking about Nadal's year. Vincent Durrough of Nashville went so far as to write, "If Nadal wins another Masters Series event, and he wins the Masters cup over Federer, shouldn't we be calling him the best player in the world?" I feel for Nadal. In any other year, winning 11 titles would make a player a lock for No. 1. Add in the fact that the guy is still a teenager, he took a Major and four (!) Masters Series events, and he'd be fit for canonization. Regardless of what happens in Shanghai, this is just a banner year.

By unfortunate accident, Nadal is a contemporary of Roger Federer. As sterling as Nadal's season has been, it takes a backseat to Federer's 2005. Federer has, of course, won two Slams (and reached the semis at the other two) and has also taken four Masters events, winning titles on all surfaces. The cold and clinical rankings essentially end the debate. Spectacular as Nadal's year has been, Federer's has been superior -- 292 points superior, to be precise.

Subjectively, though Nadal and Federer split their the head-to-head matches and have won the same number of TMS events (Aside: it's pretty amazing that only two players have won the eight biggest ATP tournaments this year ) I think Federer's play in the Majors tips the scales. These are the money events, and Federer's 24-2 record is just otherworldly. (Federer can thank James Blake -- who, of course, took out Nadal in the first week of the U.S. Open -- for cementing the case.)

But let's forget Federer for a second and give Nadal his due. He's had a tremendous year. He's splintered the "clay-court specialist" label. He's made a lot of promoters happy. And, as an overnight star still in his teens, he's looked awfully comfortable wearing the trappings of celebrity.



http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...bag/index.html
R.Federer is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 112 (permalink) Old 10-27-2005, 05:18 PM
Registered User
 
Castafiore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 19,954
                     
Re: In any other year, Nadal's year would have been the standout performance

Cartoon from L'Equipe:


Translation:
"What is that noise, nurse?
It's the new gardener who is trimming the maze, Mr. Federer..."


found on vr.com
Castafiore is offline  
post #3 of 112 (permalink) Old 10-27-2005, 05:22 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 248
                     
Re: In any other year, Nadal's year would have been the standout performance

One thing to keep in mind about Nadal's year that Wertheim doesn't mention is that he barely met members from the top 5 in the world. His year has been extremely impressive, yes. But the competition he has faced for the most part has been subpar. Had he faced Hewitt (he did lose to him at the Oz Open), Safin or Roddick, and beaten them, his year would've been much more impressive.

Just my opinion.
Jimena is offline  
post #4 of 112 (permalink) Old 10-27-2005, 05:24 PM
Registered User
 
LaTenista's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: SW Ohio
Age: 37
Posts: 17,662
                     
Re: In any other year, Nadal's year would have been the standout performance

Nadal has more points now than when Roddick finished 2003 as No 1 and Moya as well. 12 titles before even being 19.5 years old is amazing. The article is right that most people will think Federer the better player because he won 2 of the 4 slams and Nadal only one.

But this overshadowing by Federer's continued outstanding performances doesn't stop at just Nadal and even Nadal overshadows other players. For example, David Ferrer has made a tremendous climb in the rankings this year - he started off 50-something and reached a career high of 13 after his best ever showing at the USO (3rd round). He made the SFs at Miami, Roma, Viña del Mar, and New Haven as well as QFs at Monte Carlo, Roland Garros, Umag and Madrid. He was a finalist at his hometown tournament in Valencia. But in his country people only pay attention to Rafa.

Perhaps tennis is a sport that is meant to be dominated by one player? Borg, McEnroe, Lendl, Sampras, etc.

Titles: 2005 - PAW Washington 2006 - PTS Marseille, TT Miami Doubles(w/coreyschucky), TT Tokyo Singles 2007 - TT Hamburg Doubles(w/SarettaFan) 2008 - TT Indianapolis Singles Finalist: 2005 - PAW Montreal & Bucharest 2006 - TT Acapulco Singles & Doubles(w/Iza), TT Houston Doubles(w/robrulz5), PTS Monte Carlo, TT Barcelona Doubles(w/Peta Pan), TT Newport Doubles(w/adee-gee), PAW Umag 2007 - TT Queen's Singles & Doubles(w/SarettaFan), TT Champaign Doubles(w/TommyB.) 2008 - TT Auckland Doubles(w/invu2day), TT Recanati Singles, TT Newport Doubles(w/sploush), TT Indianapolis Doubles(w/sploush)
Nadal Moyá Ferrer Verdasco Puerta Cañas Andreev Safin
Roddick Blake Salzenstein Delic DeHeart
Montcourt Gasquet Mathieu Serra Simon Santoro
LaTenista is offline  
post #5 of 112 (permalink) Old 10-27-2005, 05:25 PM
Registered User
 
LaTenista's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: SW Ohio
Age: 37
Posts: 17,662
                     
Re: In any other year, Nadal's year would have been the standout performance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimena
One thing to keep in mind about Nadal's year that Wertheim doesn't mention is that he barely met members from the top 5 in the world. His year has been extremely impressive, yes. But the competition he has faced for the most part has been subpar. Had he faced Hewitt (he did lose to him at the Oz Open), Safin or Roddick, and beaten them, his year would've been much more impressive.

Just my opinion.
Nadal did beat Roddick. DC finals in Sevilla, come back to win from a set down.

Titles: 2005 - PAW Washington 2006 - PTS Marseille, TT Miami Doubles(w/coreyschucky), TT Tokyo Singles 2007 - TT Hamburg Doubles(w/SarettaFan) 2008 - TT Indianapolis Singles Finalist: 2005 - PAW Montreal & Bucharest 2006 - TT Acapulco Singles & Doubles(w/Iza), TT Houston Doubles(w/robrulz5), PTS Monte Carlo, TT Barcelona Doubles(w/Peta Pan), TT Newport Doubles(w/adee-gee), PAW Umag 2007 - TT Queen's Singles & Doubles(w/SarettaFan), TT Champaign Doubles(w/TommyB.) 2008 - TT Auckland Doubles(w/invu2day), TT Recanati Singles, TT Newport Doubles(w/sploush), TT Indianapolis Doubles(w/sploush)
Nadal Moyá Ferrer Verdasco Puerta Cañas Andreev Safin
Roddick Blake Salzenstein Delic DeHeart
Montcourt Gasquet Mathieu Serra Simon Santoro
LaTenista is offline  
post #6 of 112 (permalink) Old 10-27-2005, 05:43 PM
1,000 Baby!
 
nobama's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Jony Ive's design cave
Posts: 19,909
                     
Re: In any other year, Nadal's year would have been the standout performance

Quote:
Originally Posted by LaTenista
Nadal did beat Roddick. DC finals in Sevilla, come back to win from a set down.
Not in 2005. Beating someone once to me doesn't mean much. But beating someone 10 out of 11 times or 8,9 times in a row does. I'll be even more impressed if Rafa starts beating top 5, top 10 players on a regular basis like Rogelio does.

nobama is offline  
post #7 of 112 (permalink) Old 10-27-2005, 05:45 PM
Registered User
 
peteslamz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 489
                     
Re: In any other year, Nadal's year would have been the standout performance

For me, I do not think that Nadal has been overshadowed by Federer this year. I mean he was able to get a HUGE following this year and almost all the media wants to cover him. He can even let his piratas and his Michelin shirt do all talking.

What frightens you?

“Nothing scares me. On second thought, I hate dentists. I fear dentists. You want to know how many cavities I have? Don’t embarrass me. Going to the dentist for me is worse than playing Fabrice Santoro.” - Marat Safin
peteslamz is offline  
post #8 of 112 (permalink) Old 10-27-2005, 05:45 PM
Comparisons are Odious
 
mangoes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Catching the vigorous horse of my mind......
Posts: 10,541
                     
Re: In any other year, Nadal's year would have been the standout performance

Quote:
Originally Posted by LaTenista
Nadal did beat Roddick. DC finals in Sevilla, come back to win from a set down.
While I am going to keep away from debating Andy vs Rafa, I will defend Andy for that match:

IT WAS CLAY..........AND...........THE CROWD WAS DISTRACTING........LOLOLOL



Live Life to the Fullest , Be Happy , Find Peace within Yourself ..................
Tennis Helps!!
mangoes is offline  
post #9 of 112 (permalink) Old 10-27-2005, 05:48 PM
Comparisons are Odious
 
mangoes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Catching the vigorous horse of my mind......
Posts: 10,541
                     
Re: In any other year, Nadal's year would have been the standout performance

Quote:
Originally Posted by peteslamz
For me, I do not think that Nadal has been overshadowed by Federer this year. I mean he was able to get a HUGE following this year and almost all the media wants to cover him. He can even let his piratas and his Michelin shirt do all talking.

I agree with you. I don't think Nadal has been "overshadowed". Each player, in my opinion, has been well covered and has earned the love and respect of tennis fans everywhere. But someone had to be no. 1 and no. 2.



Live Life to the Fullest , Be Happy , Find Peace within Yourself ..................
Tennis Helps!!
mangoes is offline  
post #10 of 112 (permalink) Old 10-27-2005, 05:49 PM
Registered User
 
Chloe le Bopper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Munchkin Land
Posts: 28,276
                     
Re: In any other year, Nadal's year would have been the standout performance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimena
One thing to keep in mind about Nadal's year that Wertheim doesn't mention is that he barely met members from the top 5 in the world. His year has been extremely impressive, yes. But the competition he has faced for the most part has been subpar. Had he faced Hewitt (he did lose to him at the Oz Open), Safin or Roddick, and beaten them, his year would've been much more impressive.

Just my opinion.
Had Hewitt, Roddick, and Safin gotten into position more often for them to face Nadal, *their* years would have been more impressive. The guy won 4 masters series where not a single one of these guys factored in. While they all have their reasons for that, I fail to see how his year is less impressive because these three performed even worse (or didn't really perform at all).
Chloe le Bopper is offline  
post #11 of 112 (permalink) Old 10-27-2005, 05:51 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 248
                     
Re: In any other year, Nadal's year would have been the standout performance

Yeah, that was on clay. And if we're going back to 2004, Andy beat Nadal and bageled him in the process at the US Open. :P

Quote:
Nadal has more points now than when Roddick finished 2003 as No 1 and Moya as well. 12 titles before even being 19.5 years old is amazing. The article is right that most people will think Federer the better player because he won 2 of the 4 slams and Nadal only one.
But it's not only because of that, in my mind. The quality of players Roger's beaten and his results at the Slams are much better than Nadal's.
Jimena is offline  
post #12 of 112 (permalink) Old 10-27-2005, 05:51 PM
Registered User
 
Chloe le Bopper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Munchkin Land
Posts: 28,276
                     
Re: In any other year, Nadal's year would have been the standout performance

Quote:
Originally Posted by mirkaland
Not in 2005. Beating someone once to me doesn't mean much. But beating someone 10 out of 11 times or 8,9 times in a row does. I'll be even more impressed if Rafa starts beating top 5, top 10 players on a regular basis like Rogelio does.
Yeah, and I'll be even more impressed in those OTHER players if they start getting to the later stages of the same tournaments as Nadal, making it possible for him to face them in the first place. Nadal fell short at Wimbledon and the USO, but aside from that the reason that he didn't face these guys more often is that their years really weren't that impressive (compared to previous years).
Chloe le Bopper is offline  
post #13 of 112 (permalink) Old 10-27-2005, 05:53 PM
Registered User
 
SwissMister1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Virginia
Age: 17
Posts: 4,786
                     
Re: In any other year, Nadal's year would have been the standout performance

LOLZ at the bastion of tennis journalism, L'Equipe calling the Nadal-lookalike "Federer" in the cartoon

______________________________

~♠ Gasquetaires ♠~

un pour tous, tous pour un
‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾

PAW #1 5/22/06
Predict-the-SCORE US Open Champion
SwissMister1 is offline  
post #14 of 112 (permalink) Old 10-27-2005, 05:56 PM
Registered User
 
Chloe le Bopper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Munchkin Land
Posts: 28,276
                     
Re: In any other year, Nadal's year would have been the standout performance

Frankly, I think that this "Rafa didn't face quality opposition" blah is simply people making BS excuses for his performance this year. I mean, seriously - how on earth can he face people who either underperformed more often than him, or got injured and didn't play at all? How did it make his year less impressive because he happened to be head and shoulder above said players this season? Blasphemy. Absurd. RIDICULOUS.

But that's just my opinion, naturally
Chloe le Bopper is offline  
post #15 of 112 (permalink) Old 10-27-2005, 05:58 PM
Registered User
 
Castafiore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 19,954
                     
Re: In any other year, Nadal's year would have been the standout performance

Quote:
Originally Posted by SwissMister1
LOLZ at the bastion of tennis journalism, L'Equipe calling the Nadal-lookalike "Federer" in the cartoon


What are you talking about, SwissMister?
L'Equipe's Federer is inside the house (maison de repos 'le Shining' joli'), the Nadal-lookalike is waving an ax in the garden.
Castafiore is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the MensTennisForums.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome