Player/Coach Changes /"The Changing of the Guard" - Page 2 - MensTennisForums.com
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post #16 of 1511 (permalink) Old 10-23-2005, 04:05 PM
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Re: The Changing of the Guard

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Originally Posted by Rosie
Btw - GWH - how could you forget the lovely Gaby Markus in your list of Coria's coaches? Mind you - he only lasted a couple of months so maybe it isn't worth remembering
One of Coria's short-term coaches was a pre-arranged temporary stint, that may have been Markus? I also heard a rumor that Coria parted with Mancini over personal reasons, that Mancini objected to him marrying Carla. Personally, I'd choose a spouse over a coach any day.
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post #17 of 1511 (permalink) Old 10-23-2005, 04:06 PM
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Re: The Changing of the Guard

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Originally Posted by cobalt60
Thank you Rosie! I was hoping that you might post-you were someone I knew would have good information. And I didn't mean to single out any one group of players. It is just that the commentators did and made it seem that the SA's were different as a whole group. That one bit is what disturbed me somewhat.
And Paulie-very true about life in general but I won't go into philosophical/psychological issues about why people throw the blame onto others.
Mine of useless information - that's me I do understand where your commentators are coming from though as I said before - you only need to compare the usually short-lived South American coach/player partnerships with the likes of other combinations such as Piatti/Ljubicic, Volandri/ Fanucci or Schuettler/Hordorff to see that they do have a bad track record! The only really long-standing South American coach/player relationship I can think of was Guga/Pasos which lasted many, many years, and even that was more a personal almost "Father/Son" thing after Guga lost his Father very young, than a "normal" coaching relationship. Most others barely last 18 months (often a lot less!)

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post #18 of 1511 (permalink) Old 10-23-2005, 04:12 PM
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Re: The Changing of the Guard

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Originally Posted by ATennisFan
One of Coria's short-term coaches was a pre-arranged temporary stint, that may have been Markus? I also heard a rumor that Coria parted with Mancini over personal reasons, that Mancini objected to him marrying Carla. Personally, I'd choose a spouse over a coach any day.
Blengino was the temporary one I believe, not Markus,- though I accept that as a big Coria fan, you would know more than me in that regard. As for the Mancini split - I believe there were personal reasons involved and I'm sure that Mancini may have thought Coria was too young to get married and his new life might detract from his tennis ambitions - but there must have been other reasons as well - I couldn't tell you.

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post #19 of 1511 (permalink) Old 10-23-2005, 04:35 PM
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Re: The Changing of the Guard

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosie
Btw - GWH - how could you forget the lovely Gaby Markus in your list of Coria's coaches? Mind you - he only lasted a couple of months so maybe it isn't worth remembering
I didn't mean to forget Gaby Markus, it was an oversight, but he has been around the block as well, before coaching weasel, he was also with Nalbandian and the others you have mentioned. I think with Coria and Markus, it wasn't meant to be temporary, though coming back too soon at the TMC last year couldn't have helped.

Come to think of it Feña with De La Peña have been together for quite some time, he was also coaching Acasuso at the time, Chucho came on the tour.

Mancini well they had their reasons for splitting.

On Nadal bumping him on the changeover, Rosol said: "It's ok, he wanted to take my concentration; I knew he would try something".


Wilander on Dimitrov - "He has mind set on imitating Federer and yes it looks good. But he has no idea what to do on the court".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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post #20 of 1511 (permalink) Old 10-23-2005, 04:58 PM
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Re: The Changing of the Guard

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Originally Posted by GeorgeWHitler
I didn't mean to forget Gaby Markus, it was an oversight, but he has been around the block as well, before coaching weasel, he was also with Nalbandian and the others you have mentioned. I think with Coria and Markus, it wasn't meant to be temporary, though coming back too soon at the TMC last year couldn't have helped.

Come to think of it Feña with De La Peña have been together for quite some time, he was also coaching Acasuso at the time, Chucho came on the tour.

Mancini well they had their reasons for splitting.
Yes - you're right about Horacio and Feña - must be a couple of years now. Horacio is also working with the young Chilean hope Paul Capdeville, so he must be a busy man

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post #21 of 1511 (permalink) Old 10-23-2005, 05:56 PM
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Re: The Changing of the Guard

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Originally Posted by Rosie
Yes - you're right about Horacio and Feña - must be a couple of years now. Horacio is also working with the young Chilean hope Paul Capdeville, so he must be a busy man
Horacio is too busy - I would like to see him focus on Fernando a bit more. He does also coach Paul (and Etlis and Rodriguez) as well as having a school in Chile.

Great coach though - I like that he's with Fernando - hope they stay together a long time to come.

Hope Nico keeps Gaby this time...lol!...because he has changed coaches every year. Gaby is a great coach - time to stick with one!
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post #22 of 1511 (permalink) Old 10-23-2005, 06:38 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The Changing of the Guard

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Originally Posted by Rosie
Personally - I agree with your commentators - so many players just seem to blame their coaches when things go wrong instead of being mature and adult enough to blame themselves. It's called shifting responsibility instead of facing up to their own shortcomings - and I hate it The South Americans are renowned for it - though as others have said it's true that other players do it to - Marat being the obvious example..
I hate it too,Rosie. Your comment has reminded me about other stuff as well. But yes as you and GWH have alluded to, the commentators were talking about how strange that the changes happen so much. And I remember reading that it also takes a significant amount of time for a coach to actually help a player but that the "time" issue is overlooked.
BTW when did Davin go back with Gaudio? I thought they were a done deal earlier this year? They have made up?

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post #23 of 1511 (permalink) Old 10-23-2005, 07:21 PM
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Re: The Changing of the Guard

Yeah, Horacio is working with Feña and Paul at the same time I didn't know about Chucho
Hmm I don't think it's a SA players problem.. it depends of the player a lot.. If a player has bad character (like Massu) is going to change of coaches till he feels good..

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post #24 of 1511 (permalink) Old 10-23-2005, 08:06 PM
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Re: The Changing of the Guard

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Originally Posted by cobalt60
I hate it too,Rosie. Your comment has reminded me about other stuff as well. But yes as you and GWH have alluded to, the commentators were talking about how strange that the changes happen so much. And I remember reading that it also takes a significant amount of time for a coach to actually help a player but that the "time" issue is overlooked.
BTW when did Davin go back with Gaudio? I thought they were a done deal earlier this year? They have made up?
Gaston and Franco got back together just before the US Open - but their present contract is only temporary until the end of this season - then they will re-evaluate and see whether they want to continue together next year or go their separate ways. As for the time thing - well a friend of mine who is a professional coach told me that you need about 3 months to even get to know your new player,and then at least another 3 months on top of that to begin to help them. So realistically, anyone who expects quick results in less than 6-9 months with a new coach is going to be disappointed.

And guess I know what "other stuff" you are referring to

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post #25 of 1511 (permalink) Old 10-23-2005, 08:19 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The Changing of the Guard

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Originally Posted by Rosie
Gaston and Franco got back together just before the US Open - but their present contract is only temporary until the end of this season - then they will re-evaluate and see whether they want to continue together next year or go their separate ways. As for the time thing - well a friend of mine who is a professional coach told me that you need about 3 months to even get to know your new player,and then at least another 3 months on top of that to begin to help them. So realistically, anyone who expects quick results in less than 6-9 months with a new coach is going to be disappointed.

And guess I know what "other stuff" you are referring to
Thanks Rosie. I took a short break after that but my love of tennis is stronger thankfully and the addiction to MTF hard to break

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post #26 of 1511 (permalink) Old 10-24-2005, 09:18 AM
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Re: The Changing of the Guard

Nice thread Sue.

Well here, it is the opposite. Good coaches are hard to find. So, they tend to put the blame on the player when he gets poor results. They are the choosy ones.

From personal experience, my son has been with his coach ever since he started palying except for a very short period. Two years ago, he had a nasty fight with him and decided to change him. As he is the one playing, I don't interfere with his decisions. He was mad because he thought his coach didn't pay much attention to his weak points and thought he was not helping him enough overcome them. He stayed with another coach for 5 months (one of the best available, considered even better than his own coach) and his level really took a dive. There was no chemistry (another important factor) between them and they never liked each other. He was too proud to go back to his old coach.

Fortunately for him, after seeing his results, his old coach gave him a call and asked him if he wanted them to work back together. My son accepted immediately and they've been together ever since. Because he is young and not yet on a "professional" level, he is very emotionally attached to his coach. He looks up to him as a big brother and will not hear of changing him.

The point is, when you are a professional and can afford it, if your coach isn't giving you the results you are looking for, you will most probably change him. I think most players are mature enough to know and evaluate where the responsibilities lie. If they keep kidding themselves that their results, or lack of them, are solely the responsibility of their coach, they will never reach the level they are aiming for, even if the coach plays instead of them.

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post #27 of 1511 (permalink) Old 10-24-2005, 09:22 AM
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Re: The Changing of the Guard

Quote:
Originally Posted by <Lt*Alonso*Cl>
Yeah, Horacio is working with Feña and Paul at the same time I didn't know about Chucho
Hmm I don't think it's a SA players problem.. it depends of the player a lot.. If a player has bad character (like Massu) is going to change of coaches till he feels good..
Yes, Horacio coached Chucho for a little while and it wasn't too bad, but now Chucho is with Orsanic, who also worked with Horna. You see Orsanic must like pain.

That's the thing Massu is always changing coaches, then again as I said so are Malisse and Safin is quite stable for once.

On Nadal bumping him on the changeover, Rosol said: "It's ok, he wanted to take my concentration; I knew he would try something".


Wilander on Dimitrov - "He has mind set on imitating Federer and yes it looks good. But he has no idea what to do on the court".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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post #28 of 1511 (permalink) Old 10-25-2005, 10:29 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The Changing of the Guard

Quote:
Originally Posted by <Lt*Alonso*Cl>
Yeah, Horacio is working with Feña and Paul at the same time I didn't know about Chucho
Hmm I don't think it's a SA players problem.. it depends of the player a lot.. If a player has bad character (like Massu) is going to change of coaches till he feels good..
I missed this comment Alonso- what do you mean by Massu and "bad character"? And changing to feel good?

And Mando interesting about the different aspect of coaching where you are with your son.
And of course we now have Roddick and Malisse changing coaches. How many more after this season?

BTW- My favorite coachs( and how could I forget?)- Tony Roche and David Macpherson( the latter because he is very funny and kept his word)

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Last edited by cobalt60; 10-25-2005 at 10:36 PM.
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post #29 of 1511 (permalink) Old 10-25-2005, 10:48 PM
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Re: The Changing of the Guard

Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt60
I missed this comment Alonso- what do you mean by Massu and "bad character"? And changing to feel good?
I meant He don't have always a good mood with his coaches, and he changes it to feel good or better
sorry Sue.. told ya before my english sucks

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post #30 of 1511 (permalink) Old 10-25-2005, 10:53 PM
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Re: The Changing of the Guard

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Originally Posted by <Lt*Alonso*Cl>
I meant He don't have always a good mood with his coaches, and he changes it to feel good or better
sorry Sue.. told ya before my english sucks
Yes, much like most of the South American players...

Like most of them, he can be difficult to coach. But I've heard that about most of the SA players.

Gaby says that he has a lot of affection for Nico though so they obviously have a good relationship. Which is good, because Nico needs him.
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