Pete Rose & Tennis: Why betting on yourself to WIN should be allowed - Page 2 - MensTennisForums.com
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post #16 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-12-2014, 09:07 PM
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Re: Pete Rose & Tennis: Why betting on yourself should be allowed

Collusion is hard to prove, once you make some form of betting legal, then by default you are having some underworld/mafia guys closer to the sport....
Even with betting illegal, we see betting, if it were legal(even if it was on you winning), we'd see caricatures....

I can barely think when I watch a guy like Fognini play, that he isn't tanking to win the match for his opponent....

It's an ugly can of worms.....
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post #17 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-12-2014, 09:21 PM
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Re: Pete Rose & Tennis: Why betting on yourself should be allowed

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Originally Posted by motorhead View Post
this is like saying you'll have scarlett johansson in your bed, you are only allowed to kiss her but if you screw her nobody will know. would you just kiss her?
I would do neither. I'd tell that bitch to get the fuck up out of my bed and out of my home.

In any case, bipartisan consent is more interesting when it comes to sexual intercourse than whether anybody will know about or allow it.
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post #18 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-12-2014, 10:44 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Pete Rose & Tennis: Why betting on yourself should be allowed

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Originally Posted by Time Violation View Post
Like getting the evidence would be easy, it's very difficult even now when the betting is banned, let alone if it were allowed. You would need some sort of NSA surveillance to get anything.
I think you see that folks who handle these bets are very sophisticated and don't want to pay a fortune to people who are colluding. It is ridiculous to ban betting for yourself to win just because there could be a collusion. And do you honestly think a very top player (top 10) will risk everything to collude with a bum?

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post #19 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-12-2014, 10:48 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Pete Rose & Tennis: Why betting on yourself should be allowed

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Collusion is hard to prove, once you make some form of betting legal, then by default you are having some underworld/mafia guys closer to the sport....
Even with betting illegal, we see betting, if it were legal(even if it was on you winning), we'd see caricatures....

I can barely think when I watch a guy like Fognini play, that he isn't tanking to win the match for his opponent....

It's an ugly can of worms.....
Alight ... let's put all the hypothetical stuff aside ... right now ... if let's say a top 20 is found to have bet on themselves to win against a top 10er, do you think they deserve lifetime ban? What should be done with someone who has not colluded but just bet on himself to win? I just want to know what the fans think ...

Also if you really think people don't cheat now, you are maybe a bit optimistic. People freaking fix soccer matches these days. They throw fights. And they don't get caught ... Now Pete Rose's situation is different. He was banned for betting on his team whereas in an individual sport like tennis, you really don't have a control as far as winning against a top guy. Losing can be a choice, which should have lifetime ban attached to it

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post #20 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-12-2014, 10:51 PM
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Re: Pete Rose & Tennis: Why betting on yourself should be allowed

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Originally Posted by Backhand Smash View Post
If he is betting that he will win then why not.
Probably because you can get better odds if you bet "How" you might win. I believe insider information is often illegal or against betting rules, hence why you can't bet on your self in sports. It is also a slippery path.
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post #21 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-12-2014, 10:53 PM
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Re: Pete Rose & Tennis: Why betting on yourself should be allowed

If you were allowed to bet on yourself you could manipulate the odds to create huge value by say... losing your previous few matches badly, faking an injury etc etc.

E.G. Kohlschreiber loses 1-6 1-6 to Sela 3-6 1-6 to Gombos and seemingly carrying an injury. Now as a result he's even money (2.00) to beat dead legs Starace and he has 200k to win 200k there.

Aside from that its just a fackin dumb idea.
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post #22 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-12-2014, 11:00 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Pete Rose & Tennis: Why betting on yourself should be allowed

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If you were allowed to bet on yourself you could manipulate the odds to create huge value by say... losing your previous few matches badly, faking an injury etc etc.

E.G. Kohlschreiber loses 1-6 1-6 to Sela 3-6 1-6 to Gombos and seemingly carrying an injury. Now as a result he's even money (2.00) to beat dead legs Starace and he has 200k to win 200k there.

Aside from that its just a fackin dumb idea.
Again... betting on yourself to win. Betting on yourself to lose is illegal and lifetime ban is justified. It is also fraud and should come with jail sentence.

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post #23 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-12-2014, 11:04 PM
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Re: Pete Rose & Tennis: Why betting on yourself should be allowed

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Again... betting on yourself to win. Betting on yourself to lose is illegal and lifetime ban is justified. It is also fraud and should come with jail sentence.
Kohly didn't bet on himself to lose those two matches, but he lost them badly knowing that this would create a value betting opportunity in his next few matches as the odds would adjust to his poor form/injuries etc.

You probably don't understand betting enough to understand?
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post #24 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-12-2014, 11:08 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Pete Rose & Tennis: Why betting on yourself should be allowed

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Kohly didn't bet on himself to lose those two matches, but he lost them badly knowing that this would create a value betting opportunity in his next few matches as the odds would adjust to his poor form/injuries etc.

You probably don't understand betting enough to understand?
I do understand betting but that is throwing matches and should come with a lifetime ban. Sure, is it easy to prove? No but you don't get away with it too often. In the age of big data, it is not hard to identify a trend like that and figure out who may be throwing matches.

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post #25 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-12-2014, 11:10 PM
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Re: Pete Rose & Tennis: Why betting on yourself should be allowed

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this is like saying you'll have scarlett johansson in your bed, you are only allowed to kiss her but if you screw her nobody will know. would you just kiss her?
I'd do both, obviously

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post #26 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-12-2014, 11:10 PM
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Re: Pete Rose & Tennis: Why betting on yourself should be allowed

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I do understand betting but that is throwing matches and should come with a lifetime ban. Sure, is it easy to prove? No but you don't get away with it too often. In the age of big data, it is not hard to identify a trend like that and figure out who may be throwing matches.
It's impossible to prove unless a consistent pattern of behaviour/betting, sure.

But all in all it just opens up a huge can of worms and is a flat out dumb idea. Not worth wasting any more time on it.
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post #27 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-12-2014, 11:12 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Pete Rose & Tennis: Why betting on yourself should be allowed

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It's impossible to prove unless a consistent pattern of behaviour/betting, sure.

But all in all it just opens up a huge can of worms and is a flat out dumb idea. Not worth wasting any more time on it.
You just said he lost badly to someone he shouldn't have badly. Is that correct?

As far as the question ... did you miss the Pete Rose part? I was just curious if lifetime ban for someone who bet on himself a few times to win is a wise idea. The question was more about the appropriate penalty and not really about completely opening the can of worm.

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post #28 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-12-2014, 11:12 PM
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Re: Pete Rose & Tennis: Why betting on yourself to WIN should be allowed

You have inside information. If you know you are sick, you can not bet. If you normally bet on yourself, this would be a signal to the bookies to sell. Just bad, bad news all around.

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post #29 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-12-2014, 11:15 PM
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Re: Pete Rose & Tennis: Why betting on yourself to WIN should be allowed

Some players do this anyway.

They bet on themselves with void on retirement bookmakers and then make sure they retire if they are losing, even if its not until they are facing match points. A certain Ruskie American type comes to mind there.
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post #30 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-12-2014, 11:15 PM
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Re: Pete Rose & Tennis: Why betting on yourself should be allowed

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Originally Posted by motorhead View Post
this is like saying you'll have scarlett johansson in your bed, you are only allowed to kiss her but if you screw her nobody will know. would you just kiss her?
couldn't have said it better

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I would do neither. I'd tell that bitch to get the fuck up out of my bed and out of my home.
gay? or just sour grapes?

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