USO 05 Wooden Spoon Award? - MensTennisForums.com
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-11-2005, 05:15 AM Thread Starter
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USO 05 Wooden Spoon Award?

Update: This guy Andrew Broad, has a whole website dedicated to tennis wooden spoons. He shows how to calculate the award (if you're interested). His lists are for the WTA only, however.



Dr. Andrew Broad
Tennis
Wooden-Spoon Lists
Explanation of the Theory

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A wooden-spoon list is a compact representation of a tournament draw. It takes the form of a list of the players, ordered according to who beats whom in the tournament. Obviously the champion is first in the list. I call it a `wooden-spoon' list because any draw has exactly one `wooden-spoonist', defined as the player at the end of the longest losing chain, and that player has the `ignominy' of being identified as the last player on the list.

A simple example illustrates the theory. Suppose Monica Seles, Iva Majoli, Jelena Dokic and Karina Habsudová are the players in a four-player knockout draw. Suppose the results are as follows:

Semi-finals:
Monica Seles beats Jelena Dokic
Iva Majoli beats Karina Habsudová

Final:
Monica Seles beats Iva Majoli

Obviously Monica is the number one player on the wooden-spoon list for this tournament (as well as number one in every other sense of the word). Iva is second, because she lost to Monica in the final. Jelena is third, because she lost to Monica in the semi-finals, and Monica went on to win the tournament. Karina is last on the list, because she lost to Iva, and Iva lost to Monica, so Karina is at the end of the longest losing chain - the `wooden-spoonist' of the tournament.

Study the following example of an eight-player draw to cement your understanding of wooden-spoon theory:

Quarter-finals:
Monica Seles beats Iva Majoli
Daniela Hantuchová beats Iroda Tulyaganova
Jelena Dokic beats Vera Zvonareva
Maria Sharapova beats Karina Habsudová

Semi-finals:
Monica Seles beats Daniela Hantuchová
Maria Sharapova beats Jelena Dokic

Final:
Monica Seles beats Maria Sharapova

Wooden-spoon list:
1. Monica Seles
2. Maria Sharapova
3. Daniela Hantuchová
4. Jelena Dokic
5. Iva Majoli
6. Karina Habsudová
7. Iroda Tulyaganova
8. Vera Zvonareva


The wooden-spoon list has some neat properties:

You can calculate whom a player beat or lost to in a particular round by respectively adding or subtracting a binary power (1 for final, 2 for semi-final, 4 for quarter-final, etc.). For example, given just the above wooden-spoon list, you can work out that the player whom Maria beat in the quarter-finals was Karina (because 2+4=6), or that the player Daniela lost to in the semi-finals was Monica (because 3-2=1).
You can reverse-engineer the whole draw, given just the wooden-spoon list (strictly speaking, you can reverse-engineer a draw which is isomorphic to the actual draw, since the wooden-spoon list does not intrinsically preserve draw-order). The wooden-spoon list is thus a maximally compact representation of a draw.
Entries in the wooden-spoon list could be tagged with extra information, such as the score by which each player (except the champion) lost the match that she lost, a Boolean flag for each entry to indicate draw-order, and of course extra information about each player such as her status in the draw (seeding, qualifier, wild card, etc.).
You could even construct an anti-draw, by reversing the wooden-spoon list and then constructing a draw from the reverse wooden-spoon list. Effectively, it's as though the first-round losers went through to a second round to play each other, and so on - the losers playing in the next round instead of the winners. For what it's worth, the wooden-spoon list `predicts' who would lose to whom, culminating in the crowning of the anti-champion! ;-) The anti-draw for the above wooden-spoon list is as follows:
Quarter-finals:
Iva Majoli loses to Monica Seles
Iroda Tulyaganova loses to Daniela Hantuchová
Vera Zvonareva loses to Jelena Dokic
Karina Habsudová loses to Maria Sharapova

Anti-semi-finals:
Iroda Tulyaganova loses to Iva Majoli
Vera Zvonareva loses to Karina Habsudová

Anti-final:
Vera Zvonareva loses to Iroda Tulyaganova


The algorithm for constructing a wooden-spoon list from a given draw is as follows. This is how you assign players in a 128-player draw to positions in the wooden-spoon list:

1: the champion;
2: the runner-up;
3-4: the players who lost to players 1-2 in the semi-finals;
5-8: the players who lost to players 1-4 in the quarter-finals;
9-16: the players who lost to players 1-8 in the last sixteen;
17-32: the players who lost to players 1-16 in the last 32;
33-64: the players who lost to players 1-32 in the last 64;
65-128: the players who lost to players 1-64 in the first round.


So who are the candidates for this year's USO? I'm thinking Duckboy (lost to Gilles Miller who lost to????)

Someone know?

Last edited by Tennis Fool; 09-11-2005 at 07:52 PM.
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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-11-2005, 05:23 AM
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Re: USO 05 Wooden Spoon Award?

What is that, the spoon award ?
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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-11-2005, 05:25 AM
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Re: USO 05 Wooden Spoon Award?

If Federer wins, then

Federer d. Agassi
Agassi d. Ginepri
Ginepri d. Coria
Coria d. Massu
Massu d. Wawrinka
Wawrinka d. Puerta
Puerta d. Noam Okun

If Agassi wins, then

Agassi d. Federer
Federer d. Hewitt
Hewitt d. Nieminen
Nieminen d. Verdasco
Verdasco d. Djokovic
Djokovic d. Ancic
Ancic d. Hyung-Taik Lee
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-11-2005, 05:38 AM Thread Starter
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Re: USO 05 Wooden Spoon Award?

Quote:
Originally Posted by R.Federer
What is that, the spoon award ?
The reverse champion. Player A lost to player B, who lost to player C, who lost to player D...who lost to the champion.
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-11-2005, 05:52 AM
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Re: USO 05 Wooden Spoon Award?

The player that lost to the lowest ranked player would get the wooden spoon.
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-11-2005, 06:11 AM
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Re: USO 05 Wooden Spoon Award?

I guess it's going to Noam Okun... Congrats Mr. Okun!!!

I want to have my evil way with Tommy Robredo


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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-11-2005, 07:23 AM
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Re: USO 05 Wooden Spoon Award?

please give it to mark... at least he wins one trophy this yr...

Roger Federer d Lleyton Hewitt
Lleyton Hewitt d Dominik Hrbaty
Dominik Hrbaty d David Ferrer
David Ferrer d Karol Kucera
Karol kucera d Mark Philippoussis

I cant believe Ferrer beat Kucera 6-3, 6-0, 6-2... it just makes marks defeat even worse, ive got the shits today as you can tell by my latest entry on my site.

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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-11-2005, 07:30 AM Thread Starter
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Re: USO 05 Wooden Spoon Award?

Quote:
Originally Posted by flip_fan
please give it to mark... at least he wins one trophy this yr...

Roger Federer d Lleyton Hewitt
Lleyton Hewitt d Dominik Hrbaty
Dominik Hrbaty d David Ferrer
David Ferrer d Karol Kucera
Karol kucera d Mark Philippoussis

I cant believe Ferrer beat Kucera 6-3, 6-0, 6-2... it just makes marks defeat even worse, ive got the shits today as you can tell by my latest entry on my site.
Mark I thought this was supposed to be a comeback year.
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-11-2005, 07:41 AM
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Re: USO 05 Wooden Spoon Award?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tennis Fool
Mark I thought this was supposed to be a comeback year.
oh please... i never thought it was possible but 2005 is shaping up to be even worse then 2004. comeback my arse! the only achievement mark has managed this yr is to double his ranking - bloody hell even wayne arthurs managed to win a title this yr!

... as u can see the sarcasim is in full force today.

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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-11-2005, 08:44 AM
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Re: USO 05 Wooden Spoon Award?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tennis Fool
Mark I thought this was supposed to be a comeback year.
more like a comeback of humiliation and record for losses but if i'll give the spoon award to my Andy because he'll need it to make soup with at Wendy's or something if he keeps playing the way he plays

2012 SEASON IS HERE!

GOOD LUCK TO|ANDY!| | JAMES ! | ROGI ! | RAFA !| MILOS!| NOVAK! | MARDY! | RICHARD ! |ROBBY !| TOMMY!| JCF !| GAEL!| DAVID!| |CARLOS!|

YOU ROCK BOYS!!
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Re: USO 05 Wooden Spoon Award?

...
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Re: USO 05 Wooden Spoon Award?

mark
it's sad but pathetic to the point where i can't help but laugh. who would have thought it could get even worse than last year.

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Re: USO 05 Wooden Spoon Award?

Roddick
the great white dope
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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-11-2005, 07:57 PM
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Re: USO 05 Wooden Spoon Award?


Talk to the hand because the ears don't hear you.
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-11-2005, 08:22 PM
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Re: USO 05 Wooden Spoon Award?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tennis Fool
A wooden-spoon list is a compact representation of a tournament draw. It takes the form of a list of the players, ordered according to who beats whom in the tournament. Obviously the champion is first in the list. I call it a `wooden-spoon' list because any draw has exactly one `wooden-spoonist', defined as the player at the end of the longest losing chain, and that player has the `ignominy' of being identified as the last player on the list.
I've been doing this for years. Not just to find the worst player in the draw but also the worst 2nd round, 3rd round, 4th round (etc..) losers. For instance, JC Ferrero was the worst player to loose in the 3rd round at Roland Garros this year - believe it or not. And Marat was the worst 4th round loser. Santoro was the wooden-spoon player at Roland Garros.

I never usually believe these because clearly players can have a very good day, beating someone they usually wouldn't, and then play poorly again in their next match. Like Gilles Muller at the US Open this year and Marat at Roland Garros this year. Juan Carlos was definately not the worst 3rd round loser.

At the Aus Open, Felix Mantilla won the wooden-spoon. At Wimbledon, Nadal was the worst 2nd round loser. He beat Spadea in the 1st round which makes Spadea the wooden-spoon player.

I never knew it was called a "wooden-spoon". Intersting that you can actually do a whole list that ranks the players from 1 to 128 - I only knew how to find the worst players.
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