Brad Gilbert: Darkhorses don't win the USO. - MensTennisForums.com
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post #1 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-17-2005, 10:51 PM Thread Starter
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Exclamation Brad Gilbert: Darkhorses don't win the USO.

Pat and Cliff tried to argue with him by saying that Hewitt wasn't a favorite going into the USO 2001 by Brad came back with "He was seeded number 3 at that Open". They brought up Rafter who was seeded 13 at the 97 USO, but Brad retort with "Pat was in the finals of many of the USO lead up events". I think Brad is right on this statement. Can anyone find evidence to the contrary?
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post #2 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-17-2005, 10:53 PM
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Re: Brad Gilbert: Darkhorses don't win the USO.

I have one word for Gilbert -- Orantes

Anyway, wasn't Rafter a dark horse the first time he won the USO?
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post #3 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-17-2005, 10:57 PM
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Re: Brad Gilbert: Darkhorses don't win the USO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk
Pat and Cliff tried to argue with him by saying that Hewitt wasn't a favorite going into the USO 2001 by Brad came back with "He was seeded number 3 at that Open". They brought up Rafter who was seeded 13 at the 97 USO, but Brad retort with "Pat was in the finals of many of the USO lead up events". I think Brad is right on this statement. Can anyone find evidence to the contrary?
http://www.atptennis.com/en/players/...=S402&x=23&y=5

Check out Sampras' USO win in 2002. His ATP race ranking was 32 and he hadn't won a hardcourt title going into the event. Everyone was talking retirement time for Pete. Doesn't that make him a darkhorse? Or am I missing something here?
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post #4 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-17-2005, 10:57 PM
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Re: Brad Gilbert: Darkhorses don't win the USO.

Noooooooooooo, not another Brad Gilbert thread, please
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post #5 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-17-2005, 10:59 PM
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Re: Brad Gilbert: Darkhorses don't win the USO.

Although Sampras had 13 Slams under his belt in 2002, he didn't win any tournament since Wimbledon 2000. I considered he's a dark horse that year.
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post #6 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-17-2005, 11:03 PM
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Re: Brad Gilbert: Darkhorses don't win the USO.

Rafter in 97
well someone had to win that one
look at the semifinalists
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post #7 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-17-2005, 11:05 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Brad Gilbert: Darkhorses don't win the USO.

Never thought about the Pete 02 year. That could be debatable. Star read my first post about Rafter being mentioned. I think that could go either way because he was seeded 13 (which would make him a darkhorse) yet had a really great summer that year so that is a tough call but I agree with Brad on that one. Orantes, didn't he win lots of clay (among other surfaces) events so was he really a darkhorse?
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post #8 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-17-2005, 11:06 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Brad Gilbert: Darkhorses don't win the USO.

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Originally Posted by TheBoiledEgg
Rafter in 97
well someone had to win that one
look at the semifinalists
Gregers isn't that bad Eggy.
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post #9 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-17-2005, 11:13 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Brad Gilbert: Darkhorses don't win the USO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by star
I have one word for Gilbert -- Orantes

Anyway, wasn't Rafter a dark horse the first time he won the USO?
http://www.atptennis.com/en/players/...yernumber=O017

Orantes won lots of title in 75 including clay events in Hamburg and Monte Carlo so he had to be seeded high. He also won hardcourt events that year too. I can't imagine him not being seeded in the top five going into that USO.
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post #10 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-17-2005, 11:21 PM
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Re: Brad Gilbert: Darkhorses don't win the USO.

13th seed is a "dark horse"? What y'all smokin?
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post #11 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-17-2005, 11:45 PM
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Re: Brad Gilbert: Darkhorses don't win the USO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBoiledEgg
Rafter in 97
well someone had to win that one
look at the semifinalists
Michael was just completely tired from his quarterfinal win over Marcelo.

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post #12 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-18-2005, 12:36 AM
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Re: Brad Gilbert: Darkhorses don't win the USO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by star
I have one word for Gilbert -- Orantes

Anyway, wasn't Rafter a dark horse the first time he won the USO?
When Orantes won the US Open, it was on clay. And he won other large clay events earlier that year, I believe.

Rafter in '97 was probably the last winner of the US Open who could be considered a dark horse. It doesn't happen much in New York.

/ / / /
Djokovic.
\ \ \ \
Coric.
/ / / / /
Youzhny.
\ \ \ \
Del Potro.
/ / / /
Paire.
\ \ \ \
Ferrero.
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post #13 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-18-2005, 12:37 AM
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Re: Brad Gilbert: Darkhorses don't win the USO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whistleway
13th seed is a "dark horse"? What y'all smokin?
I'd say so.

/ / / /
Djokovic.
\ \ \ \
Coric.
/ / / / /
Youzhny.
\ \ \ \
Del Potro.
/ / / /
Paire.
\ \ \ \
Ferrero.
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post #14 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-18-2005, 12:47 AM
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Re: Brad Gilbert: Darkhorses don't win the USO.

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Although Sampras had 13 Slams under his belt in 2002, he didn't win any tournament since Wimbledon 2000. I considered he's a dark horse that year.
Sampras did not play well all year but nobody could be surprised when Pete started rolling so he wasn't a TRUE darkhorse. Sampras in 1990, however, is a different story. He was a true darkhorse then.

Orantes was the #3 seed when he won it and was a darkhorse only in the sense that Connors was unstoppable that year. He really roughed Connors up in the final

Newcombe in 1973 was the 10th seed.
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post #15 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-18-2005, 12:55 AM
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Re: Brad Gilbert: Darkhorses don't win the USO.

I think Manuel Orantes was the biggest dark horse to win the USO.

However, when Gilbert says Rafter was in "many" of the finals in the lead up events, that's a little misleading. Rafter lost second round in Los Angeles, lost second round in Canada, lost third round in Cincy, and then lost in the finals of New Haven and Long Island to Moya and Kafelnikov respectively. I don't think that record made Rafter a favorite going into the USO. And remember, McEnroe scoffed at Rafter's win and called him a "one slam wonder."
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