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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-15-2005, 03:17 AM Thread Starter
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stupid question about the atp race

if rafa overtakes federer on the atp race points by the end of the year, does that mean rafa ends as world #1 even if roger has more points in the entry rankings?
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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-15-2005, 03:35 AM
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Re: stupid question about the atp race

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Originally Posted by megadeth
if rafa overtakes federer on the atp race points by the end of the year, does that mean rafa ends as world #1 even if roger has more points in the entry rankings?
at end of year entry and race are the same.

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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-15-2005, 03:56 AM
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Re: stupid question about the atp race

I for one have never understood the whole points and ranking stuff

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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-15-2005, 04:00 AM
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Re: stupid question about the atp race

At the end of the year, the top 10 or 12 players in the race & the entry system will be the same. Below that, some lower ranked players will be higher in the entry sytem than they are in the race due to challenger results (that count in the entry system but not the race).
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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-15-2005, 04:07 AM Thread Starter
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Re: stupid question about the atp race

so in this case, even if rafa gets more points, roger (assuming he has more entry level points), would still be #1?
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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-15-2005, 04:11 AM
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Re: stupid question about the atp race

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Originally Posted by megadeth
so in this case, even if rafa gets more points, roger (assuming he has more entry level points), would still be #1?
No. Both of them are ignoring challengers.

Last edited by Skyward; 08-15-2005 at 04:29 AM.
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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-15-2005, 04:20 AM
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Re: stupid question about the atp race

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Originally Posted by megadeth
so in this case, even if rafa gets more points, roger (assuming he has more entry level points), would still be #1?
As I said the top 10 or 15 players will be in the same position in both the entry system & the race at the end of the year. The race determines the year-end #1, #2, etc, but the top players will be in the same positions in both.

The race ends after the masters cup in November, while the entry system continues on only taking the last two weeks of the year off (50 out of 52 weeks of the year).

Last edited by smucav; 08-15-2005 at 04:25 AM.
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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-15-2005, 10:44 AM
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Re: stupid question about the atp race

At the end of the season, assuming that a player only plays at ATP Tour-level events and none at all of Challengers, Futures etc, the tournament results that go toward his Race points and his Entry points are EXACTLY THE SAME. In reality, the Top 10/12 players and most of the Top 40 players should be in this category.

At the very top of the rankings, e.g. Top 5-8, the year-end Race and the year-end Entry standings are completely identical. So it will be completely impossible, at this point, to have Nadal as the year-end Race No. 1 and Federer the year-end Entry No. 1.

This year, the only minor change in the Top 15 between the Race and the Entry year-end rankings might be Puerta, who has some Entry points from Challengers that will probably go into his Entry points total, but are, of course, not included in the Race total.
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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-15-2005, 11:15 AM
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Re: stupid question about the atp race

so now the race points between nadal and federer are very close,
there might be a chance that nadal overtake federer to become no.1 end of this year.

this has been discussed since nadal has won the french open, but not many people think that is going to happen because many of us dont believe nadal could produce good results in hard court

but now, situation is different.
nadal has won in montreal, making many of us to rethink this matter again.

although i know many people here still think nadal won because federer wasnt there (which is actually one of the factor, but didnt mean nadal cannot play well on hardcourt)... nadal is in fact a dangerous player on hardcourt, he could win against anybody, imo, roddick, safin, or even hewitt and federer...

federer needs to be very careful now, and fight to keep his no.1 position till end of year....
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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-15-2005, 11:17 AM
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Re: stupid question about the atp race

During the course of the year you have to look at the Entry Rank points to know the true rankings, so why bother questioning that? The ATP race status doesn't reflect the true rankings until the very end of the year but by then isn't it just as easy to look at the Entry Rank list?

I don't see where the confusion is.

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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-15-2005, 11:22 AM
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Re: stupid question about the atp race

Quote:
Originally Posted by jenanun
so now the race points between nadal and federer are very close, there might be a chance that nadal overtake federer to become no.1 end of this year.
Yes, there is a chance for Nadal. The remaining tournaments are all important. It could be so close that we wouldn't know until the very end of the year. I wonder when the last time was that the #1 and #2 both had won this many tournaments and had this many points?

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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-15-2005, 11:44 AM
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Re: stupid question about the atp race

and when was the last time, that all TMS titles (6 of them so far) and GS (apart from AO) are shared by only 2 players!

nadal and federer are soooooooo good and ahead of all other players!
Safin, had done a great job in stealing one of those titles from them! haha!!!
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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-15-2005, 11:50 AM
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Re: stupid question about the atp race

Quote:
Originally Posted by jenanun
and when was the last time, that all TMS titles (6 of them so far) and GS (apart from AO) are shared by only 2 players!

nadal and federer are soooooooo good and ahead of all other players!
Safin, had done a great job in stealing one of those titles from them! haha!!!
The others need to step up big time

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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-15-2005, 12:29 PM
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Re: stupid question about the atp race

Quote:
Originally Posted by jenanun
and when was the last time, that all TMS titles (6 of them so far) and GS (apart from AO) are shared by only 2 players!

nadal and federer are soooooooo good and ahead of all other players!
Safin, had done a great job in stealing one of those titles from them! haha!!!
Well I would be interested to know when the last time was that both the #1 and #2 player had each won 8 tournaments including 3 TMS and 1 Major each by this time in the year? When ever did they both have this many points by this time......because so often there are discussions about comparing the rivalries and the depth of the field between then and now.

In Sampras time was there ever such a strong #2 player ? In 1995 Sampras only won 5 tournaments (including Wimby and USO). It's just interesting to think a player then wouldn't have to play constantly through out the year....he could concentrate on winning two majors and that alone would be enough.

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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-15-2005, 12:53 PM
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Re: stupid question about the atp race

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Originally Posted by PamV
In Sampras time was there ever such a strong #2 player ? In 1995 Sampras only won 5 tournaments (including Wimby and USO). It's just interesting to think a player then wouldn't have to play constantly through out the year....he could concentrate on winning two majors and that alone would be enough.
Well, Sampras couldn't really afford to win only 5 in 1995 (even though two of them were slams) and paid the price. Muster won 12 tournaments that year, and that enabled him to overtake Sampras for the top spot during 1996.

If Federer doesn't do well enough at Cincy/USO and during the autumn, he may well pay a similar price after the Australian Open 2006.
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