Will Murray ever win a clay title? - Page 12 - MensTennisForums.com

View Poll Results: Will he win a clay title
No 46 35.38%
He will win an ATP 250 26 20.00%
He will win an ATP 500 26 20.00%
He will win a MS title (yeah right!) 20 15.38%
He will do the unthinkable and win Roland Garros 12 9.23%
Voters: 130. You may not vote on this poll

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post #166 of 692 (permalink) Old 12-27-2010, 02:54 PM
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Re: Will Murray always suck on clay? Is there anything he can do?

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Originally Posted by blondie456 View Post
But Stosur and Serena are also talented and can challenge anyone on the ATP when they are 'on'.
Serena herself would disagree with you:

“I think women’s tennis and men’s tennis are totally opposite,” was Serena’s take on the matter yesterday. “The men are just way stronger. I even have trouble with my hitting partner and he is not professional – although he would make a good professional player. It really is comparing apples to oranges.

“First of all I would have to go into serious training for about two months,” she added. “I would have to get seriously fit. Then I would have to play seriously well. But I definitely think if anyone is going to hang there then it would be me or Venus because we have more of a power game and are seriously fast. I would have to go to bootcamp though – no sweets, no nothing for about two months – then I think I would have a good chance. A good chance against someone who is way outside the top 100 – not inside otherwise I think I would have no chance.”


http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/...game-1.1039204

There are plenty of stories about WTA players not being a match for their hitting partners, brothers, husbands etc. Men simply hit with much more power/spin, and reach balls that their female counterparts wouldn't be able to get to.

Quote:
And rankings do lie. Pics definitely does not play like he is no.7 in the world
He's the second best player on clay this year, in terms of points. That inflates his ranking on other surfaces somewhat. On clay, however, he's unquestionably a great player. This year he reached the semis of Monte Carlo, Madrid, and Barcelona, the finals of Rome, and won Acapulco.

Quote:
Similarly, Murray is only ranked top 20 on clay due to his easy draws at the slams and masters series.
He's beaten Chela, Gasquet, Starace, Robredo, Davydenko, Volandri - solid clay court players. He doesn't need to beat top 10, or top 5 players on that surface, to be worthy of his ranking. He just needs to be consistent enough to beat those 'above' him (some of the 'solid' clay court players, I listed), so he can make it to the QF or SF, which he's done.

When he does the same next year, and the year after, hopefully you'll realise that there isn't some divine force fixing every draw for him. He's simply a reasonable clay court player (certainly not great). He looks bad on clay because he's at least top 4, everwhere else, and you can make a case for being no.1 on hardcourt, outside of the slams.

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And he got bagelled in that match too
He got bagelled by Monfils at Toronto, too. That was the only set he lost in the tournament. Says something about his potential, and his mentality.
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post #167 of 692 (permalink) Old 12-27-2010, 02:54 PM
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Re: Will Murray always suck on clay? Is there anything he can do?

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Originally Posted by blondie456 View Post
If Kohlschreiber could thrash Mugray 6-2,6-1 on clay then i dont see why the top women players do not have a decent chance at beating him as well.

Mugray is just useless on clay. His serve is rendered to nothing due to its slow speed and he does not know how to slide. He needs to first get a forehand and change his style of play before he can do better on the surface. Pushing is not the way to go. Mugray would get outbashed by Stosur and Serena if he faces them on clay. But definitely on hard courts he will beat them.
Please tell me you're trolling.
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post #168 of 692 (permalink) Old 12-27-2010, 03:22 PM
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Re: Will Murray always suck on clay? Is there anything he can do?

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Originally Posted by 2003 View Post
Murray has Rafas number at grand slams
FAIL. He is 2-3 H2H at Slams (8-10 in sets), and:

4-5 on hardcourts (13-13 in sets), 0-2 on grass (0-6 in sets), and 0-2 on clay (0-4 in sets), 4-9 overall (13-23 in sets).

He basically does not lead in ANY category, and yet has his number. Unshakeable logic.

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Originally Posted by .-Federers_Mate-. View Post
Federer is a tennis god. Big john (Isner) was lucky to be a witness to what was on show today. Tough match vs Seppi next round
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Originally Posted by Seingeist View Post
The foaming-at-the-mouth blind fanboyism and double standards of these posts (F. mates) is so overwhelming that it strikes me as a self-parody.

"Tough match?" World #3 Federer's ("greatest player to have ever played the game," you just said before rushing off the bathroom to change your underwear) H2H against World #58 Seppi is 6-0.

If it wasn't tough, Federer's victory would not be as glorious and godlike! Naturally, if Seppi and Isner were in Nadal's side of the draw, any victory that he managed to scrape out against these Tough Titans of Tennis would be pure luck!
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post #169 of 692 (permalink) Old 12-27-2010, 03:28 PM
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Re: Will Murray always suck on clay? Is there anything he can do?

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Originally Posted by CCBH View Post
FAIL. He is 2-3 H2H at Slams (8-10 in sets), and:

4-5 on hardcourts (13-13 in sets), 0-2 on grass (0-6 in sets), and 0-2 on clay (0-4 in sets), 4-9 overall (13-23 in sets).

He basically does not lead in ANY category, and yet has his number. Unshakeable logic.
If Murray is capable of winning over Nadal 2 times in a GS, it's enough to say that he has his number. Nadull is 1-2 against Federer on grass and I guess everyone would agree that he knows how to defeat Roger at Wimbledon.

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Career HIGHLIGHTS

2007|David Nalbandian strikes lucky to win against Rafael Nadal 6-4 6-0
2008|Mikhail Youzhny escapes Rafael Nadal 6-1 6-0
2008|Jo-Wilfried Tsonga was pushed to the edge by Rafael Nadal 6-2 6-3 6-2
2009|Juan Martin Del Potro survives Rafael Nadal 6-2 6-2 6-2


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post #170 of 692 (permalink) Old 12-27-2010, 04:10 PM
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Re: Will Murray always suck on clay? Is there anything he can do?

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Originally Posted by Nadull_tard View Post
If Murray is capable of winning over Nadal 2 times in a GS, it's enough to say that he has his number. Nadull is 1-2 against Federer on grass and I guess everyone would agree that he knows how to defeat Roger at Wimbledon.
The phrase in general means 'to have a measure of', so any win would qualify as 'having his number', but the connotation is one of 'he owns him', which is why many object to the phrasing.

Also, no one would claim Nadal has Fed's number at Wimbledon. Just plain silly given Roger's incredible success at W and the closeness of the match. Now saying Nadal has Roger's number overall makes sense (and trivially on clay).

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Originally Posted by .-Federers_Mate-. View Post
Federer is a tennis god. Big john (Isner) was lucky to be a witness to what was on show today. Tough match vs Seppi next round
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seingeist View Post
The foaming-at-the-mouth blind fanboyism and double standards of these posts (F. mates) is so overwhelming that it strikes me as a self-parody.

"Tough match?" World #3 Federer's ("greatest player to have ever played the game," you just said before rushing off the bathroom to change your underwear) H2H against World #58 Seppi is 6-0.

If it wasn't tough, Federer's victory would not be as glorious and godlike! Naturally, if Seppi and Isner were in Nadal's side of the draw, any victory that he managed to scrape out against these Tough Titans of Tennis would be pure luck!
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post #171 of 692 (permalink) Old 12-27-2010, 05:41 PM
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Re: Will Murray always suck on clay? Is there anything he can do?

If Monfils will win Wimbledon, Murray will be good claycourt player.

Novak Djokovic

Fucsovics Márton

Marin Cilic, Juan Martin Del Potro

Verdasco,Tsonga, Troicki, Feli,Tipsarevic

-Soderling, de Bakker, F.Gonzalez, Monaco, Monfils-
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post #172 of 692 (permalink) Old 12-27-2010, 06:59 PM
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Re: Will Murray always suck on clay? Is there anything he can do?

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Originally Posted by Singularity View Post

He's beaten Chela, Gasquet, Starace, Robredo, Davydenko, Volandri - solid clay court players. He doesn't need to beat top 10, or top 5 players on that surface, to be worthy of his ranking. He just needs to be consistent enough to beat those 'above' him (some of the 'solid' clay court players, I listed), so he can make it to the QF or SF, which he's done.

When he does the same next year, and the year after, hopefully you'll realise that there isn't some divine force fixing every draw for him. He's simply a reasonable clay court player (certainly not great). He looks bad on clay because he's at least top 4, everwhere else, and you can make a case for being no.1 on hardcourt, outside of the slams.
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post #173 of 692 (permalink) Old 12-27-2010, 08:43 PM
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Re: Will Murray always suck on clay? Is there anything he can do?

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Originally Posted by RedHotRafa View Post
I just love how people think Nadal's injury are total bullshit. They are so real its ridiculous. Topspindoctor lemme ask you, would you pull out of defending your title at the world's most prestigious major for any other reason than knowing you cannot play well because of injury? I think not.

I just hate people who call Nadal's injury fake, the only fake ailment in the ATP is mono. Every single player somehow seems to get it when they lost a big match. Ex. Federer 2008 Aussie, Roddick 2010 Wimbledon.
LOL

So every loss Rafa EVER has in his ENTIRE CAREER is because of injury? WOW, you're now No. 1 on my tard shit list.



I guess Nadal lost at WTF because he was injured right? What about the Zurich Expo? yup, injuries.. (nvm that it was fixed)

rofl
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post #174 of 692 (permalink) Old 12-27-2010, 09:11 PM
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Re: Will Murray always suck on clay? Is there anything he can do?

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Originally Posted by Pirao666 View Post
Man I really wish they had a mixed tour so these WTA fanboys/girls stopped living in their lalaland and watched the reality when the women started getting destroyed and fell to 3 and 4 digits rankings.

There's a reason why most sports have men and women divisions, hint, it's not to protect the men.
Hahaha, Vicente now with 1 serve would still beat the top women.

On Nadal bumping him on the changeover, Rosol said: "It's ok, he wanted to take my concentration; I knew he would try something".


Wilander on Dimitrov - "He has mind set on imitating Federer and yes it looks good. But he has no idea what to do on the court".

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Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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post #175 of 692 (permalink) Old 12-28-2010, 08:48 AM
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Re: Will Murray always suck on clay? Is there anything he can do?

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Originally Posted by Shambritfan View Post
Surpass you in terms of what? Trolling ability? I'll pass thanks.

Roddick fails on clay far more than Murray ever will and is a far bigger pusher than Murray I might add. I'm sure you know that. If you really think Murray would lose to WTA players (no offence to them) then using that logic so would ARod.

I know you're just trolling, but I have fun having 'serious' discussions with trolls.
Roddick has a big serve which is unbreakable for the women, something which Mugray can only dream of having. And I certainly did not say Roddick would beat the likes of Serena and Stosur, why did you bring him into the discussion? Mugray would beat Mugbanova on clay as well. Stop trolling.

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Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
Serena herself would disagree with you:

“I think women’s tennis and men’s tennis are totally opposite,” was Serena’s take on the matter yesterday. “The men are just way stronger. I even have trouble with my hitting partner and he is not professional – although he would make a good professional player. It really is comparing apples to oranges.

“First of all I would have to go into serious training for about two months,” she added. “I would have to get seriously fit. Then I would have to play seriously well. But I definitely think if anyone is going to hang there then it would be me or Venus because we have more of a power game and are seriously fast. I would have to go to bootcamp though – no sweets, no nothing for about two months – then I think I would have a good chance. A good chance against someone who is way outside the top 100 – not inside otherwise I think I would have no chance.”


http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/...game-1.1039204

There are plenty of stories about WTA players not being a match for their hitting partners, brothers, husbands etc. Men simply hit with much more power/spin, and reach balls that their female counterparts wouldn't be able to get to.


He's the second best player on clay this year, in terms of points. That inflates his ranking on other surfaces somewhat. On clay, however, he's unquestionably a great player. This year he reached the semis of Monte Carlo, Madrid, and Barcelona, the finals of Rome, and won Acapulco.


He's beaten Chela, Gasquet, Starace, Robredo, Davydenko, Volandri - solid clay court players. He doesn't need to beat top 10, or top 5 players on that surface, to be worthy of his ranking. He just needs to be consistent enough to beat those 'above' him (some of the 'solid' clay court players, I listed), so he can make it to the QF or SF, which he's done.

When he does the same next year, and the year after, hopefully you'll realise that there isn't some divine force fixing every draw for him. He's simply a reasonable clay court player (certainly not great). He looks bad on clay because he's at least top 4, everwhere else, and you can make a case for being no.1 on hardcourt, outside of the slams.


He got bagelled by Monfils at Toronto, too. That was the only set he lost in the tournament. Says something about his potential, and his mentality.
'

Please. Serena is just being humble. Does Nadal ever say he would win even though he obviously would trash his opponents easily? He always says things like "I'll have to play my best tennis and hopefully I can win."In interviews he speaks like hes no. 100000 in the world and so does Serena. How gullible to believe what she says in a press conference. She has her image to maintain so she would not be "proud" and announce to the whole world that she has the potential to beat ATP players.

And Pics is definitely not the 2nd best on clay this year. In reality, Federer is ranked no.2 and Verdasco is no.3 so rankings do lie.

Mugray also certainly needs to beat some top players on clay to prove himself. He loses to the 1st decent player he meets on the surface. Just like Federer needs to continue proving himself on clay as people put him down for his FO win w/o facing Nadal and Nadal for his USO win w/o facing Federer, Murray also needs to prove himself. The point is he is still not consistent enough and needs to change his style of play to do well on clay, which is something he cant do.

By being bagelled, Mugray already shows that he has zero potential and mentality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pirao666 View Post
Man I really wish they had a mixed tour so these WTA fanboys/girls stopped living in their lalaland and watched the reality when the women started getting destroyed and fell to 3 and 4 digits rankings.

There's a reason why most sports have men and women divisions, hint, it's not to protect the men.
You're in lalaland right now.

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Originally Posted by paseo View Post
Please tell me you're trolling.
Whether I am trolling is for you to decide.

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post #176 of 692 (permalink) Old 12-28-2010, 09:16 AM
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Re: Will Murray always suck on clay? Is there anything he can do?

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Originally Posted by 2003 View Post
Come back when Nadal remembers to lose gracefully in grand slams and with class and not retire to avoid losing a 3rd set bagel pretending to be injured

He can do whatever at a mickey mouse tournament, but behave with grace on the biggest stage, and dont cheat like vs Petchner and Hasse at Wimbledon.
Excuse me? lose gratefully? I seem to remember a Fed who cried during the ceremony, how is that grateful? get off your high horse. Fed is far from perfect. Don't make it seem like he is.

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Verdasco was their cheerleader, number one mascot.
They let him play tennis once after they saw his "consistency is everything" advertisement.
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Joke thread? Kohlschreiber clowns this servebot in 3.
Maybe 4 or 5 if he wants to get more of a workout in.
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post #177 of 692 (permalink) Old 12-28-2010, 09:21 AM
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Re: Will Murray always suck on clay? Is there anything he can do?

Well Murray should have won the 2007 AO 4th round match in straight sets, and I dont care what anyone says!

Ever since that moment, hardcourt matches between Murray and Nadal have ALWAYS been on Murrays racket, except Windian Wells 2009.

"I did not play my best tennis, no? And..that is what enable him to win..to win this match no? "

- Rafael Nadal, ever so "humble", - press conference after shock 4 set loss to Robeen Soderling @ 2009 French Open 4th round.


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post #178 of 692 (permalink) Old 12-28-2010, 09:23 AM
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Re: Will Murray always suck on clay? Is there anything he can do?

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Excuse me? lose gratefully? I seem to remember a Fed who cried during the ceremony, how is that grateful? get off your high horse. Fed is far from perfect. Don't make it seem like he is.
What is wrong with crying? Everybody has feelings. Murray and Roddick have cried after losing GS finals and Nadal also cried at his press conference when he announced that he couldnt defend his Wimby title last year. Does that show ungracefulness? It is perfectly legitimate to express one's inner feelings and release the tears as bottling it up is no good for the mind and soul. Cheating is a totally different story...

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post #179 of 692 (permalink) Old 12-28-2010, 01:34 PM
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Re: Will Murray always suck on clay? Is there anything he can do?

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Originally Posted by blondie456 View Post
Please. Serena is just being humble. Does Nadal ever say he would win even though he obviously would trash his opponents easily? He always says things like "I'll have to play my best tennis and hopefully I can win."In interviews he speaks like hes no. 100000 in the world and so does Serena. How gullible to believe what she says in a press conference. She has her image to maintain so she would not be "proud" and announce to the whole world that she has the potential to beat ATP players.

And Pics is definitely not the 2nd best on clay this year. In reality, Federer is ranked no.2 and Verdasco is no.3 so rankings do lie.

Mugray also certainly needs to beat some top players on clay to prove himself. He loses to the 1st decent player he meets on the surface. Just like Federer needs to continue proving himself on clay as people put him down for his FO win w/o facing Nadal and Nadal for his USO win w/o facing Federer, Murray also needs to prove himself. The point is he is still not consistent enough and needs to change his style of play to do well on clay, which is something he cant do.

By being bagelled, Mugray already shows that he has zero potential and mentality
Probably, I just should stop taking you seriously at this point. Obviously winning Toronto without dropping a set to Federer, Nadal or an in-form Nalbandian, means you have no potential .

You've decided who is the best on clay this year, seemingly arbritrarily. Ferrer won an event on clay this year, Federer won none, Federer reached one final, Ferrer reached two, Federer made one TMS semi final, Ferrer made two. Yet despite performing worse overall, and achieving worse results (in all but one event), Federer is the better player! Does Federer even need to turn up? Or should he always be no. 2 in the rankings?

Equally, whatever Murray achieves, you've decided it 'doesn't count', because Murray simply isn't any good as a clay court player, in your mind. This is despite the fact that he's proven he can beat 'second tier' clay courters, and reach the QFs and SFs, which is all he needs to do to be top 20. Who else are you putting above him? Players with worse results, who somehow deserve the ranking more - just because you say so?

Finally, I find it funny you try to pass Serena off as being humble, given everything she's said. Especially, when the content of her statement in this case, is "I can take on the guys, and I'm the only woman (besides Venus) who can". She was simply being realistic with her expectations. If she struggles with her hitting partner, how exactly is she going to take on someone within the top 100 of the ATP?

And with regard to Nadal, note that he never says he can't win, merely that it will be very hard, that he'll have to play his best tennis, etc. But he always backs himself to play at his best, when it counts. Serena is saying she can't win, which you would never hear from a top pro, and it demonstrates the gulf in ability between the men and women.
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post #180 of 692 (permalink) Old 12-28-2010, 01:38 PM
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Re: Will Murray always suck on clay? Is there anything he can do?

Since when Murray doesn't suck at all?
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