"Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread" - Page 49 - MensTennisForums.com

View Poll Results: Vote for speeding up the courts or against it!
Speed up the courts 333 79.10%
Leave them as they are 88 20.90%
Voters: 421. You may not vote on this poll

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post #721 of 1940 (permalink) Old 09-23-2012, 04:40 AM
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Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

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Originally Posted by Freak3yman84 View Post
I thought more people hate the top 4 than vice versa I guess not It seems like a marketing strategy that only 6 year olds would fall for We need a revolt, and we need one now!
Among 'real' tennis fans, I'd say yes definitely. I don't hate the top 4 per se, just the ridiculous hype they get and the preferential treatment at the expense of everyone else. If they were able to remain a stable top 4 with a schedule comprised of diversified surface speeds and conditions, then they'd be worthy of the hype. There's hardly anything fawn worthy about being a better baseline grinder than everyone else.

Most sports fans are like 6yos though, they just bandwagon whoever is on top at the moment, they don't need quality tennis, just a superstar figure to vicariously live through.
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post #722 of 1940 (permalink) Old 09-23-2012, 04:44 AM
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Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

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Yes, this past US Open final was just fantastic.
That particular match wasn't, but other eras had plenty of mug matches as well. I am mainly disagreeing with people saying that slower courts = automatic pushathon. AO 2012, 2009, W 2008, Rome 2006, AO 2005 semi were all super long, epic and intense matches that didn't involve pushing, had good amount of defensive play and shotmaking etc. Watching someone like Sampras win Wimbledon being broken 3 times with the longest rally being <10 shots is no less shitty than this year's USO final.

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It's hard to believe that anyone would want the top 4 to stay around for years to come. Can you honestly say that you want absolutely no change with the top players of the game?
For now, yes. Because new generation is made up of mugs like Young, Sock and Tomic. Have fun watching them winning slams when the big 4 retire
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post #723 of 1940 (permalink) Old 09-23-2012, 04:44 AM
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Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

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Lenders you are getting as bitter/redundant as some of the nostalgiatards around here who still think S&V on 90's grass is the only way to play the game. Also pretty presumptuous to assume who is "real tennis fan" and that they "want things to change". I think many people enjoy epic matches of today with many momentum shifts instead of "lol that guy had one bad service game, he just lost the set".
It's not the only way to play the game, but it's one of the many ways to play the game.

I have nothing against the kind of matches we see today per se. Grinding contests can actually be enjoyable, except when they happen in every single surface and tournament. What I want is not for that kind of tennis to disappear, but for it not to be the only kind of tennis.

Only serve & volley tennis would be just as horrible. What I and most tennis fans want to see is variety, different surfaces favoring different playing styles. In such scenario, the top players would be the ones able to adapt their game the best to the variety of surfaces and conditions, and not the ones who simply excel at one particular aspect that happens to be rewarded all year long.
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post #724 of 1940 (permalink) Old 09-23-2012, 04:50 AM
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Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

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Among 'real' tennis fans, I'd say yes definitely. I don't hate the top 4 per se, just the ridiculous hype they get and the preferential treatment at the expense of everyone else. If they were able to remain a stable top 4 with a schedule comprised of diversified surface speeds and conditions, then they'd be worthy of the hype. There's hardly anything fawn worthy about being a better baseline grinder than everyone else.
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For now, yes. Because new generation is made up of mugs like Young, Sock and Tomic. Have fun watching them winning slams when the big 4 retire
Sort of my same feelings except that I do hate them for the fact that they shouldn't be able to dominate this much.

Those are the over-hyped new-comers, there are a few better new-comers (Goffin, Raonic, Harrison) Although none are very good, I would seriously rather have them instead of the top 4 by this point. So I assume once Nadal is gone you won't be here?

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post #725 of 1940 (permalink) Old 09-23-2012, 04:57 AM
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Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

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Sort of my same feelings except that I do hate them for the fact that they shouldn't be able to dominate this much.

Those are the over-hyped new-comers, there are a few better new-comers (Goffin, Raonic, Harrison) Although none are very good, I would seriously rather have them instead of the top 4 by this point. So I assume once Nadal is gone you won't be here?
Introduce surfaces/conditions where it's not possible to defend like a mad man, run down everything and retrieve every ball, and they won't be able to dominate. Nadal, Djokovic and Murray are only above the field as long as the conditions allow them to play their perfect defense.

They are the best defenders the game has ever seen, hence their edge over the field. In surfaces where that particular skill isn't rewarded, their invincible aura will no longer exist.
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post #726 of 1940 (permalink) Old 09-23-2012, 05:00 AM
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Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

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Introduce surfaces/conditions where it's not possible to defend like a mad man, run down everything and retrieve every ball, and they won't be able to dominate. Nadal, Djokovic and Murray are only above the field as long as the conditions allow them to play their perfect defense.

They are the best defenders the game has ever seen, hence their edge over the field. In surfaces where that particular skill isn't rewarded, their invincible aura will no longer exist.
If only I had that power... But clay should never be a fast surface, and Nadal does indeed deserve to dominate there same with grass needing to be fast and Federer should be able to dominate grass like he used to. It's the fact that we have insanely slow HC is what pisses me off (almost as much as those bolded country abbreviations )

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post #727 of 1940 (permalink) Old 09-23-2012, 05:05 AM
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Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

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Introduce surfaces/conditions where it's not possible to defend like a mad man, run down everything and retrieve every ball, and they won't be able to dominate. Nadal, Djokovic and Murray are only above the field as long as the conditions allow them to play their perfect defense.
I assume if such courts were introduced you would be totally okay with making RG mega slow again (say, Monte Carlo slow) so mindless ballbashers stop going far in that tournament? There is no way guys like Del Potro/Berdych/Tsonga belong in the second week of a proper clay tournament and yet it's been happening on regular basis. Tsonga even had multiple MP's to beat "one of the best defenders ever" on a surface that is meant to be slow. "Clay" surfaces like Madrid this year would need to go too, of course.
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post #728 of 1940 (permalink) Old 09-23-2012, 05:05 AM
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Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

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If only I had that power... But clay should never be a fast surface, and Nadal does indeed deserve to dominate there same with grass needing to be fast and Federer should be able to dominate grass like he used to. It's the fact that we have insanely slow HC is what pisses me off (almost as much as those bolded country abbreviations )
Yes, hardcourts are the main problem of course, but they are the vast majority of the tennis calendar, including two Slams. HC Slam matches featuring two of Nadal, Djokovic and Murray have become almost unwatchable, they will be pushatons since neither of them can hit through the other's defense.

Clay should be slow (maybe with a few midpaced tournaments), grass should be very fast, outdoor hardcourts should alternate between medium paced and fast but not too fast (maybe one or two slow HC tournaments), indoor tournaments should be fast. Something like this anyway

That way, you'd have to adapt in order to be a top player. We'd see more surface specialists of course, but you'd need to be able to adapt your game to different conditions to climb to the top of the rankings.
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post #729 of 1940 (permalink) Old 09-23-2012, 05:08 AM
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Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

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Yes, hardcourts are the main problem of course, but they are the vast majority of the tennis calendar, including two Slams. HC Slam matches featuring two of Nadal, Djokovic and Murray have become almost unwatchable, they will be pushatons since neither of them can hit through the other's defense.

Clay should be slow (maybe with a few midpaced tournaments), grass should be very fast, outdoor hardcourts should alternate between medium paced and fast but not too fast (maybe one or two slow HC tournaments), indoor tournaments should be fast. Something like this anyway

That way, you'd have to adapt in order to be a top player. We'd see more surface specialists of course, but you'd need to be able to adapt your game to different conditions to climb to the top of the rankings.
Exactly I honestly miss surface specialists (mostly grass-court specialists ) The point of different surfaces is to make the game different and that's part of the reason why Tennis is a great sport. But courts of the same speed just generally don't make it interesting.

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post #730 of 1940 (permalink) Old 09-23-2012, 05:09 AM
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Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

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I assume if such courts were introduced you would be totally okay with making RG mega slow again (say, Monte Carlo slow) so mindless ballbashers stop going far in that tournament? There is no way guys like Del Potro/Berdych/Tsonga belong in the second week of a proper clay tournament and yet it's been happening on regular basis. Tsonga even had multiple MP's to beat "one of the best defenders ever" on a surface that is meant to be slow.
I'd be totally ok with that, in fact I do believe clay should be slow. I'm not against slow courts at all, just want variety. Roland Garros should definitely be by far the slowest Slam tournament. Clay has always been a surface where court craft, strategy, movement endurance, fitness... matter more than shotmaking and it should remain that way. It's actually good that clay is that surface since it's the easiest one on the knees and joints.

That said, Berdych reached the MC semis this year getting relatively close to beating Nole, and JMDP played a great match vs Nadal on super slow Spanish clay, they can both play on slow claycourts, although of course they'd struggle more to impose their game there.

Last edited by Mark Lenders; 09-23-2012 at 05:15 AM.
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post #731 of 1940 (permalink) Old 09-23-2012, 06:13 AM
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Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

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I'd be totally ok with that, in fact I do believe clay should be slow. I'm not against slow courts at all, just want variety. Roland Garros should definitely be by far the slowest Slam tournament. Clay has always been a surface where court craft, strategy, movement endurance, fitness... matter more than shotmaking and it should remain that way. It's actually good that clay is that surface since it's the easiest one on the knees and joints.

That said, Berdych reached the MC semis this year getting relatively close to beating Nole, and JMDP played a great match vs Nadal on super slow Spanish clay, they can both play on slow claycourts, although of course they'd struggle more to impose their game there.
Lenders, your posts over the last pages are like a voice of reason. I couldn't agree with you more. Clay should stay clay and Nadal should be able to win his tournaments on it quite easily. However, making Wimbledon a clay tournament in the 2nd week is something that simply MUST change. But this is specific to slams, the speed of courts should be evened out throughout the season just like you said, make some of them super slow, make some super fast and mix up the middle ground for the rest of the tournaments.

Djoko/Murray/Nadal fans seem to always think that people who talk of speeding up the courts want the Sampras era back where serves were 90% of the game everywhere you played. No. Just that serve & volley is 1 more way of playing the game, it's legitimate and there should be some tournaments where that strength should be rewarded. As the most dominant play style in the 90s it has completely disappeared now and that's just as problematic.

We need a middle ground allowing players of all styles a chance to shine and surface specialists to make a come back. I still believe the top 4 would remain the top 4 (it's not like Djoko mugged out on the fast courts of cinci this year now is it? He made a final rather easily) but upsets like Nadal in Wimbledon should happen more as surface specialists get a chance to get the jump on the top players.
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post #732 of 1940 (permalink) Old 09-23-2012, 06:35 AM
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Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

I agree with Lenders too .We need variety

I hated what Novak/Rafa did in madrid when they had to adjust to the surface

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post #733 of 1940 (permalink) Old 09-23-2012, 06:47 AM
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Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

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Happy with the finalists in Metz and St.Petersburg but they are too slow for indoor events.
you support Tsonga I thought Metz was pretty fast compared to the other events on the tour .St petersburg was Definately not how an indoor court should be I miss the good old days of fast indoor tennis

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post #734 of 1940 (permalink) Old 09-23-2012, 07:08 AM
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Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

I think a good compromise would be to speed up all HC and slow down clay, but manipulate the conditions so that the bounce is low on all surfaces. That would be fair.
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post #735 of 1940 (permalink) Old 09-23-2012, 09:14 AM
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Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

They need to make the surfaces play differently. Grass should be faster and low bouncing, clay the exact opposite. I don't want every court playing fast I want a bigger difference between fast and slow surfaces.
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