"Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread" - Page 114 - MensTennisForums.com
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post #1696 of 1959 (permalink) Old 09-22-2013, 07:01 AM
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Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

Not everybody is as obsessed with Nadal as you are. Perhaps the reason Nadal has been mentioned is that his dominance is regarded as a symptom, not the problem?

Some people just like a variety of tennis styles on a variety of surfaces.
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post #1697 of 1959 (permalink) Old 09-22-2013, 07:07 AM
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Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

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Not everybody is as obsessed with Nadal as you are. Perhaps the reason Nadal has been mentioned is that his dominance is regarded as a symptom, not the problem?

Some people just like a variety of tennis styles on a variety of surfaces.
You're joking right? Just search through and see how often Nadal came up. I didn't BRING him up...I wasn't even posting here until now.

Clown.
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post #1698 of 1959 (permalink) Old 09-22-2013, 07:17 AM
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Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

Learn to read. Just because people do not like Nadal's dominance of the tour, does not necessarily mean that they dislike Nadal personally.

Nadal is one of the all-time greats of tennis and I like him immensely. But the fact that he can dominate on pretty much every surface playing basically the same topspin-heavy claycourt type of game is a massive indictment of the lack of variety on the tour. Even Borg had to serve and volley at Wimbledon.

It is not just a Nadal thing. You have the same faces show up in the QFs and SFs of every Slam. It is just boring. More variety means different players have the upper hand in different matchups on different surfaces. More players have the ability to win slams depending on their speciality. Players have to truly adapt to the conditions if they want to be true allrounders.

Variety is the spice of life, man.

Last edited by Caesar1844; 09-22-2013 at 07:20 AM.
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post #1699 of 1959 (permalink) Old 09-22-2013, 07:30 AM
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Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

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Why do you guys want a slam that a servebot can win anyway? You really want Raonic or Karlovic winning a slam?
Well, at least they have weapons unlike weaponless pushers.

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post #1700 of 1959 (permalink) Old 09-22-2013, 08:15 AM
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Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

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Learn to read. Just because people do not like Nadal's dominance of the tour, does not necessarily mean that they dislike Nadal personally.

Nadal is one of the all-time greats of tennis and I like him immensely. But the fact that he can dominate on pretty much every surface playing basically the same topspin-heavy claycourt type of game is a massive indictment of the lack of variety on the tour. Even Borg had to serve and volley at Wimbledon.

It is not just a Nadal thing. You have the same faces show up in the QFs and SFs of every Slam. It is just boring. More variety means different players have the upper hand in different matchups on different surfaces. More players have the ability to win slams depending on their speciality. Players have to truly adapt to the conditions if they want to be true allrounders.

Variety is the spice of life, man.
The sport is also much more professional now too right? Before Lendl and his work ethic was unique...now it isn't. These guys work hard on movement and everything else. Don't you think that has something to do with it? Professional tennis was a relative backwater athletically before in comparison and it's only natural that the top would get more consistent.

Movement, training, treating all of the surfaces as important...these things are always given little to no importance here but I think that's simply myopic.

And of course let's not underestimate the desire of many to work backwards from a desired result to a premise instead of the other way around.

I've been playing and watching tennis for a lot longer than most of you on this site and was around to see Borg play for example. Had there been an internet at the time no doubt there would have been similar critiques about the bygone days of Hoad or Laver.
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post #1701 of 1959 (permalink) Old 09-22-2013, 08:36 AM
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Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

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The sport is also much more professional now too right? Before Lendl and his work ethic was unique...now it isn't. These guys work hard on movement and everything else. Don't you think that has something to do with it? Professional tennis was a relative backwater athletically before in comparison and it's only natural that the top would get more consistent.
You don't have to go back to Lendl to see the variety I am talking about. Just go back 10 years. When Kuerten was world number 1 he was regularly getting knocked out of Wimbledon in R1, R2, R3 - and nobody was surprised. Fast forward til today and that is basically inconceivable. If a top 4 seed loses before the QFs at a Grand Slam it is a massive upset - let alone if the #1 gets knocked out in an early round.

It is not about fitness and training. It is about the ability to play the same type of game on every surface and get more or less the same success. Lendl trained hard but he had to adapt his game to grass significantly. That doesn't happen these days.
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post #1702 of 1959 (permalink) Old 09-22-2013, 09:00 AM
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Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

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You don't have to go back to Lendl to see the variety I am talking about. Just go back 10 years. When Kuerten was world number 1 he was regularly getting knocked out of Wimbledon in R1, R2, R3 - and nobody was surprised. Fast forward til today and that is basically inconceivable. If a top 4 seed loses before the QFs at a Grand Slam it is a massive upset - let alone if the #1 gets knocked out in an early round.

It is not about fitness and training. It is about the ability to play the same type of game on every surface and get more or less the same success. Lendl trained hard but he had to adapt his game to grass significantly. That doesn't happen these days.
Ridiculous. Kuerten is simply not as good as Nadal and Djokovic, not by a long shot. They move better and they hit the ball better and are more complete players period.

And you know what? Murray regularly gets his clock cleaned on clay even though he's a great player and fast as hell.

So? What does that prove?

I'll tell you: it says something about those guys specifically and NOTHING about your supposed argument.

In any case it is very much about fitness and training as well. A guy who has great movement has at least some things to fall back on and doesn't get knocked out so easily on a not so great day though he can still lose of course.

You're absolutely insane if you think that Murray just has to play his game on clay and he'll be in the RG semis and finals or that Nadal can play at Wimbledon the way he played at RG and he'll breeze through.

In any case of course you'll believe what you want to believe.
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post #1703 of 1959 (permalink) Old 09-22-2013, 09:12 AM
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Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

See, that's the whole problem. Murray hasn't been knocked out in the first week of Roland Garros in five years, yet you call that "regularly getting his clock cleaned". In any other era, that would be an amazing record for a player on his worst surface.

Guga was 100 times the player that a spud like Ferrer is, but you wouldn't know it from comparing their Wimbledon records. There are minor differences in surfaces these days but if you think players have to adapt their games to succeed on other surfaces as much as they did even 10 years ago, then either you are lying about your age and you're really 15, or you are so old that you've actually gone senile.

Last edited by Caesar1844; 09-22-2013 at 09:15 AM.
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post #1704 of 1959 (permalink) Old 09-22-2013, 02:21 PM
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Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

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Ridiculous. Kuerten is simply not as good as Nadal and Djokovic, not by a long shot. They move better and they hit the ball better and are more complete players period.

And you know what? Murray regularly gets his clock cleaned on clay even though he's a great player and fast as hell.

So? What does that prove?

I'll tell you: it says something about those guys specifically and NOTHING about your supposed argument.

In any case it is very much about fitness and training as well. A guy who has great movement has at least some things to fall back on and doesn't get knocked out so easily on a not so great day though he can still lose of course.

You're absolutely insane if you think that Murray just has to play his game on clay and he'll be in the RG semis and finals or that Nadal can play at Wimbledon the way he played at RG and he'll breeze through.

In any case of course you'll believe what you want to believe.
He'd do even worse if you just changed the ranking system. If it were best-fourteen and no mandatory Masters events, Ferrer and sundry others would probably focus on clay full-time & there would be more difference in results based on that. More players with the potential to fluke Murray in the first two rounds. Murray OTOH probably wouldn't even show up to Paris most years.

Thomas Muster's best results off-clay when he reached #1: win at Essen Masters (carpet), R4 at USO, R3 at AO, and a QF at Indian Wells. His rankings also had something like 12 wins on clay. Nobody has any incentive to take on a Muster-like schedule anymore; if they did, the FO would be a lot trickier.

The surfaces aren't necessarily any different--they are, but they aren't. It seems like they've been toned down to the same extent that the racquets have been tweaked up. What this means is that the ball gets from point-of-contact to surface a lot quicker, and then from surface to racquet more slowly. The ball gets from point A to point C in the same time as normal. But the flight is faster and the bounce is slower, so there is almost never incentive to crash the net without a decisive winning advantage in the point. So every court plays the same in that respect: stay at the baseline or else you will get burned by the modern-day super-raquets.

IMO they can do what they want to the court, I'll watch either way.
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post #1705 of 1959 (permalink) Old 09-22-2013, 02:31 PM
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Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

Everyone was whining about the slowness/high bounce of the courts when Nadal was semi-retired last year. It's not all about Nadal.
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post #1706 of 1959 (permalink) Old 09-22-2013, 02:36 PM
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Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

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Everyone was whining about the slowness/high bounce of the courts when Nadal was semi-retired last year. It's not all about Nadal.
True.
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post #1707 of 1959 (permalink) Old 09-22-2013, 02:56 PM
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Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

Don't really care about the speed/bounce of the courts. We just need more diversity in surface! Get rid of Miami, make Indian Wells a 1-week event, and use those weeks to extend the grass court season.

That would mean that the clay season* and grass season got about equal time (8 or 9 weeks each), and the rest of the year would be played on outdoor HCs (summer timezones) and indoor HCs (winter timezones).

*Main clay court season. Of course there's some clay events in July, plus the South American swing (if players prefer that to playing indoors)...
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post #1708 of 1959 (permalink) Old 09-23-2013, 01:57 AM
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Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

If Novak was so well-coached, he wouldn't be so
frightened of going to net.
His fitness is clearly inferior to 1-2 years ago.
It's a disgrace.
Even Kuerten would've been in a 5 setter
at French Open with him.
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post #1709 of 1959 (permalink) Old 10-12-2013, 02:00 PM
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Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

Is it possible that in the future there will be a ATP chairman who has the desire to promote aggressive tennis and makes huge adjust no matter what difficulty in front of him?


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post #1710 of 1959 (permalink) Old 10-12-2013, 07:02 PM
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Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

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Is it possible that in the future there will be a ATP chairman who has the desire to promote aggressive tennis and makes huge adjust no matter what difficulty in front of him?
MTF needs to take over the ATP.

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