"Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread" - Page 111 - MensTennisForums.com
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post #1651 of 1912 (permalink) Old 09-04-2013, 07:54 AM
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Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

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The courts are fine. Tennis in the 90's was an abomination. Racket tech broke the damn game making it all about the serve. They had to slow the game down to fix it. You want faster courts, you have to go back to wooden rackets.

Watch matches from the 60's and 70's. If you think today's game is slow, you aren't going to be ready for what tennis looked like back then. It was cat and mouse and all about finesse. Watch Laver play. 20 shot rallies ON GRASS. It was a different game entirely.
The sheeple can't phantom the fact that claymugs have developed a more all-around game than the HC servebots of today and year after year make progress in tournaments and slams. Given the fact that slams like RG have speed things up, this also factors in. It's a pain for most to see their favorite players stumble on 5 shot rallies cause of their weak games against old claycourt mugs. Thus to most, it becomes an abomination, despite HC's dominating the Slams and WTF. This is actually better for tennis and not the other way around.

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post #1652 of 1912 (permalink) Old 09-04-2013, 07:04 PM
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Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

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The sheeple can't phantom the fact that claymugs have developed a more all-around game than the HC servebots of today and year after year make progress in tournaments and slams. Given the fact that slams like RG have speed things up, this also factors in. It's a pain for most to see their favorite players stumble on 5 shot rallies cause of their weak games against old claycourt mugs. Thus to most, it becomes an abomination, despite HC's dominating the Slams and WTF. This is actually better for tennis and not the other way around.
I think most people have only watched tennis since the 90's, so all they know is that brand of tennis. People think of serve and volley and they think of guys like Sampras who basically won the point as soon as the ball left their rackets. Sure they hit a volley after the serve, but the combination of racket tech and court speed made good serves un-returnable. You didn't even need to volley well. Just run up to the net and hit the duck.

Watch highlights of Agassi vs Sampras. Agassi was one of the best returners the game ever saw. And he was practically useless against Sampras's serve. Some of that is credit to Pete for the quality of his serve, sure. But a lot of it was just that the game was broken back then.

It's not a coincidence that when the game slowed down in the early 2000's, Agassi suddenly became relevant again. He would have had more slams had he not had to deal with the nonsense from the 90's.

The game is in a good place right now. There's a solid balance between serve and return. I miss the wooden racket era. But what we have today is a nice evolution.
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post #1653 of 1912 (permalink) Old 09-04-2013, 07:15 PM
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Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

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Newport the 5th slam QF was almost that, Isner def. Karlovic 7-6, 7-6. No BPs in that match.

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post #1654 of 1912 (permalink) Old 09-04-2013, 07:25 PM
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Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

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The courts are fine. Tennis in the 90's was an abomination. Racket tech broke the damn game making it all about the serve. They had to slow the game down to fix it. You want faster courts, you have to go back to wooden rackets.

Watch matches from the 60's and 70's. If you think today's game is slow, you aren't going to be ready for what tennis looked like back then. It was cat and mouse and all about finesse. Watch Laver play. 20 shot rallies ON GRASS. It was a different game entirely.
There's such a thing as VARIATION.

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post #1655 of 1912 (permalink) Old 09-04-2013, 10:13 PM
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Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

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Originally Posted by ahadabans View Post
The courts are fine. Tennis in the 90's was an abomination. Racket tech broke the damn game making it all about the serve. They had to slow the game down to fix it. You want faster courts, you have to go back to wooden rackets.

Watch matches from the 60's and 70's. If you think today's game is slow, you aren't going to be ready for what tennis looked like back then. It was cat and mouse and all about finesse. Watch Laver play. 20 shot rallies ON GRASS. It was a different game entirely.
The only thing that's on grass is you.


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Armstrong says in-competition testing will never catch anyone, only out-of-competition testing and the blood passport can.

Tennis has no blood passport system, and does basically no out of competition testing.

The methods and drugs used by Armstrong in 1999 would work in tennis right now, with zero chance of being caught (not slightly surprising to anyone familiar with the topic, btw).
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post #1656 of 1912 (permalink) Old 09-04-2013, 10:23 PM
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Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

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There's such a thing as VARIATION.
I think people just like complaining.

Here are the return numbers from 1991 for the best returner in the game on each surface (over 100 return games):
Hard - 36% (Michael Chang)
Clay - 45% (Andrei Chesnokov)
Grass - 33% (Stefan Edberg)

And here are the numbers for 2011:
Hard - 41% (Novak Djokovic)
Clay - 44% (Rafael Nadal)
Grass - 31% (Novak Djokovic)

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Matchfac...c=9&s=3&y=1991

Clay and Grass are almost identical. There's a big variance in hard courts, but that was an anomaly as Novak was having an outrageously good year. Number two was Murray with 37% (and that was Novak's number in 2012 when he was no longer a super hero).


So where is the complaint about variety? Grass is a faster surface - the serve means more there Net play matters. Clay is slower, easier to break - long rallies, baseline game, topspin rules. Hard courts are inbetween.
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post #1657 of 1912 (permalink) Old 09-04-2013, 10:29 PM
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Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

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The only thing that's on grass is you.

Brilliant comeback BTW. Vintage MTF. This place is classy as hell.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8IJ0F01IiU

16 shot rally around 1:45.

Anybody who actually watches this is going to think they are watching badminton. That's how slow the game used to play. So stop whining about today's game which is 10 times as fast.
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post #1658 of 1912 (permalink) Old 09-04-2013, 11:14 PM
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Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

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A few weeks ago I watched some old matches of James Blake including encounters against Kiefer (Vienna 2002), Agassi (Washington 2002), Safin (Hopman Cup 2004) and Moya (Indian Wells 2003) and it is quite obvious that today's game is far slower than it was then. James was able to generate direct winners off the forehand wing, whereas currently he has to fire his forehand at least two or three times to end the point. I just wonder whether his shots are less powerful now but looking at the shot and serve speeds it is probably not the reason. He uses the same frame as back then in 2002 or 2003, therefore it shouldn't be blamed on the technology of rackets. So what's the main reason - the balls or changes in surface? Or maybe James game is simply slower?
According to Serena Williams, the hard courts today are much slower than when she first came onto the tour. She should know.
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post #1659 of 1912 (permalink) Old 09-04-2013, 11:22 PM
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Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

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Originally Posted by ahadabans View Post
I think people just like complaining.

Here are the return numbers from 1991 for the best returner in the game on each surface (over 100 return games):
Hard - 36% (Michael Chang)
Clay - 45% (Andrei Chesnokov)
Grass - 33% (Stefan Edberg)

And here are the numbers for 2011:
Hard - 41% (Novak Djokovic)
Clay - 44% (Rafael Nadal)
Grass - 31% (Novak Djokovic)

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Matchfac...c=9&s=3&y=1991

Clay and Grass are almost identical. There's a big variance in hard courts, but that was an anomaly as Novak was having an outrageously good year. Number two was Murray with 37% (and that was Novak's number in 2012 when he was no longer a super hero).


So where is the complaint about variety? Grass is a faster surface - the serve means more there Net play matters. Clay is slower, easier to break - long rallies, baseline game, topspin rules. Hard courts are inbetween.
Statistics does not equal real analysis, sorry. It's a very lazy form of 'analysis'.

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post #1660 of 1912 (permalink) Old 09-04-2013, 11:36 PM
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Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

I'm no expert but I'd say the variety is more in the bounce than the speed. I would hate to see complete homogenisation and would like to see some serve and volley that can actually be a successful tactic on more than a handful of tournaments but things definitely could be worse; As serves get bigger and bigger the courts need to be slowed down to prevent endless ace-fests in my opinion.
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post #1661 of 1912 (permalink) Old 09-05-2013, 01:52 AM
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Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

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Statistics does not equal real analysis, sorry. It's a very lazy form of 'analysis'.
At least they are based on something other than opinion, which is all anyone here ever uses for their arguments.
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post #1662 of 1912 (permalink) Old 09-05-2013, 09:38 AM
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Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

How come no one complained about stats when the weak era "champs"
lost it mentally before playing FED?
When they turned 25, they folded physically, whereas
today's champs can play at age 28-35 with no whining about slow
surfaces.
You would never see Laver, Connors & Lendl crying over slow courts.

Gasquet's 27. He's not complaining.
Berdych & Delpo were rollercoasting for 5 years, but they
won't quit beating Federer.

NadalDjoker subdued Fed, so Fed was just
an unlucky, aging warrior overplaying
in his decade-long shortened schedules. LMAO
Funny how his failure to win 99% of Masters titles
and Davis Cup & Olympic singles
matches were ignored.
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post #1663 of 1912 (permalink) Old 09-05-2013, 10:57 AM
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Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

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Originally Posted by ahadabans View Post
At least they are based on something other than opinion, which is all anyone here ever uses for their arguments.
It's pretty obvious to the eye. The only way of actual clarification would be to hook up a ball to a machine and have the ball travel at the same speed and same environmental factors (fluids etc.) from the same trajectory.

Tennis was based on variety, that's why all of these different surfaces were initially created. There used to be all grass and clay, why not just go to all hardcourt now with the way things are going?

It really is a joke and variety made the tour exciting in styles and thus results.

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post #1664 of 1912 (permalink) Old 09-05-2013, 11:03 AM
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Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

Most of the posts on here:

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post #1665 of 1912 (permalink) Old 09-05-2013, 11:14 AM
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Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

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According to Serena Williams, the hard courts today are much slower than when she first came onto the tour. She should know.
Yep.
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