How Disrepectful is the term dirtballer/claycourt specialist? - MensTennisForums.com

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post #1 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-08-2005, 04:05 AM Thread Starter
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How Disrepectful is the term dirtballer/claycourt specialist?

I think this thread has been before and if so I apologise in advance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aphex
Yes, you're right, those dirt-balling clay-court specialist grinders should have their own tour and ranking, so the noble fast-courters could play their beautiful, well-balanced game in peace.
This is so true and these players who play better on clay are less worthy of playing this game and are a blight on tennis as a spectacle.

Yes, the best of all is that anyone coming from a particular country eg Spain or Argentina are automatically claycourt specialists.

This includes David Nalbandian who has said himself that clay is his worst surface, but because of his nationality he is called one.

There should be a term for guys like Rusedski or Roddick for an example who excels on faster surfaces, but alas to my surprise there isn't a term for that at all.

Last edited by Plastic Bertrand; 04-09-2005 at 07:01 AM.
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post #2 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-08-2005, 04:16 AM
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Re: How Disrepectful is the term dirtballer/claycourt specialist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plastic Bertrand
these players who play better on clay are less worthy of playing this game and are a blight on tennis as a spectacle.
I'm curious to know if in the countries of Spain, Argentina, etc., is there this same attitude that some players fall into the category of claycourter?
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post #3 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-08-2005, 04:19 AM
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Re: How Disrepectful is the term dirtballer/claycourt specialist?

This has been done, but it's always worth revisiting. The old thread has a quote from JCF in it, that I will find later tomorrow. Basically he makes it realyl clear that he hates the term.

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Last edited by Chloe; 04-08-2005 at 04:57 AM.
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post #4 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-08-2005, 04:49 AM
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Re: How Disrepectful is the term dirtballer/claycourt specialist?

Oh cool, a new thread. I think I've never done this before so let me go on...


First of all, I don't think that these terms are disrespectful. It matters how it is said and where these terms are applied in what context.

If somebody called JCF a claycourt specialist or dirtballer this would be very unjustified because this guy has done much more on various other surfaces so this term doesn't suit his achievements. However, he has had his biggest success on clay, so I would say "claycourt specialist" isn't something bad at all but he shouldn't be reduced to only a claycourt specialist as we all know he has done much more.

Claycourt specialist? Just like Popp/Moodie/Elseneer & Co are well known for being "grass court specialists"... or as it wouldn't be wrong to consider the likes of PimPim and Söderling as indoor specialists so far in their careers, because they are extraordinarly strong in these events...


As I said, nothing wrong with the term itself if it suits the players achievements and if it is used to describe a certain strength of a player.

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post #5 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-08-2005, 04:52 AM
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Re: How Disrepectful is the term dirtballer/claycourt specialist?

I use the term dirtballer all the time, but don't mean to be disrespectful about it just makes the term claycourter more colourful
post #6 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-08-2005, 04:59 AM
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Re: How Disrepectful is the term dirtballer/claycourt specialist?

Quote:
First of all, I don't think that these terms are disrespectful. It matters how it is said and where these terms are applied in what context.
Neely, I do agree with this. It does depend on when it is applied. The reason I give such a kneejerk reaction is that it's so often applied to people who don't deserve it, imo. More often than not it's applied when the person saying it knows little more about the player than the three letters next to their name: ARG, ESP.

For example, there were people calling Rafa a dirtballer before they had ever seen him hit a ball. There are people who still call Coria it, and I think Coria has gotten to the point where he deserves more respect than that.

If somebody calls Alberto Martin a dirtballer, I probably won't lose sleep over it. If he goes on to make the finals in Miami and people still call him that, I won't be impressed ... (I'm speaking hypothetically )

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post #7 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-08-2005, 05:06 AM
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Re: How Disrepectful is the term dirtballer/claycourt specialist?

The term itself is nearly always used in a condescending manner, even more condescending than most of my posts in this forum.

The truth I do agree with the original quotation that they should leave the tour and let all the others play their fastcourt games in peace, it would make things a lot more interesting.

Neely, you don't understand that the label is thrown about and has been thrown about players who have done well off clay. Nadal now, he is just a claycourter, even though he has made a TMS final on a hardcourt and did well at the AO.

Corretja and Guga got called the term even though they won the TMC indoors and in Corretja and Moya's case they won a TMS on hardcourt, yet the label sticks.

A guy like the future Wimbledon champion Oscar Hernandez, Jose Acasuso and Fernando Vicente could be called claycourt specialists and there wouldn't be too much objection, but when they called people like Corretja, Moya, Muster, Wilander, Kuerten and Ferrero the same, then it shows how much of a grasp that these people have.

On Nadal bumping him on the changeover, Rosol said: "It's ok, he wanted to take my concentration; I knew he would try something".


Wilander on Dimitrov - "He has mind set on imitating Federer and yes it looks good. But he has no idea what to do on the court".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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post #8 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-08-2005, 05:07 AM
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Re: How Disrepectful is the term dirtballer/claycourt specialist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devotee
I'm curious to know if in the countries of Spain, Argentina, etc., is there this same attitude that some players fall into the category of claycourter?
No, they are not that interested in labels and concentrate on the relative player.

On Nadal bumping him on the changeover, Rosol said: "It's ok, he wanted to take my concentration; I knew he would try something".


Wilander on Dimitrov - "He has mind set on imitating Federer and yes it looks good. But he has no idea what to do on the court".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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post #9 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-08-2005, 05:10 AM
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Re: How Disrepectful is the term dirtballer/claycourt specialist?

Well, George, if someone asked you if you are a dirtballer, would you answer yes or no or exactly what?
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post #10 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-08-2005, 05:12 AM
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Re: How Disrepectful is the term dirtballer/claycourt specialist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devotee
Well, George, if someone asked you if you are a dirtballer, would you answer yes or no or exactly what?
If someone was stupid enough to ask that question I would give them a stupid answer.

On Nadal bumping him on the changeover, Rosol said: "It's ok, he wanted to take my concentration; I knew he would try something".


Wilander on Dimitrov - "He has mind set on imitating Federer and yes it looks good. But he has no idea what to do on the court".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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post #11 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-08-2005, 05:16 AM
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Re: How Disrepectful is the term dirtballer/claycourt specialist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeWHitler
If someone was stupid enough to ask that question I would give them a stupid answer.

But do you mostly play on clay? Give me a genuine answer.
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post #12 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-08-2005, 05:17 AM
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Re: How Disrepectful is the term dirtballer/claycourt specialist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeWHitler
Corretja and Guga got called the term even though they won the TMC indoors and in Corretja and Moya's case they won a TMS on hardcourt, yet the label sticks.
Guga won TMS Cincy in 2001 and finalists in TMS Indian Wells 2003 and TMS Canada 1997.
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post #13 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-08-2005, 05:19 AM
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Re: How Disrepectful is the term dirtballer/claycourt specialist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
Guga won TMS Cincy in 2001 and finalists in TMS Indian Wells 2003 and TMS Canada 1997.
Yes, I know Guga made finals off the clay, but he is in that original batch of those guys that have performed well off clay, but still is stigmatised as a dirty claycourter.

On Nadal bumping him on the changeover, Rosol said: "It's ok, he wanted to take my concentration; I knew he would try something".


Wilander on Dimitrov - "He has mind set on imitating Federer and yes it looks good. But he has no idea what to do on the court".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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post #14 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-08-2005, 05:24 AM
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Re: How Disrepectful is the term dirtballer/claycourt specialist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plastic Bertrand
I think this thread has been before and if so I apologise in advance.
Yes, I started the thread and yes the question needs posing and I am looking forward to even more rubbish articles during the clay seasons from people who don't know what they are talking about.

Here is an old article which sums up Corretja's feelings.

Wise man Corretja lectures on thriving Spanish game
2004-05-26 15:14:13 GMT (Reuters)
By Francois Thomazeau

PARIS, May 26 (Reuters) - Alex Corretja, one of the wise veterans of Spanish tennis, gave a lecture on the state of the game in his country after easing into the French Open third round at the expense of Paradorn Srichapan on Wednesday.

"There are still some people who don't know about (Spanish) tennis and say we're all clay-court specialists," Corretja said after his 6-4 7-5 6-3 victory over the 13th seeded Thai.

"Just look at the statistics and look at the results of our careers and you'll realise we are not just clay-court specialists.

"I think (journalists) are just bored and don't know what to write," added Corretja, a finalist at Roland Garros in 1998 and 2001.

The Spaniard, who has boycotted Wimbledon in the past in protest at the tournament's seeding system, warned that his compatriots were capable of shining on all surfaces.

"I think now we can say that, even on grass, we can play very good tennis," he said.

On Nadal bumping him on the changeover, Rosol said: "It's ok, he wanted to take my concentration; I knew he would try something".


Wilander on Dimitrov - "He has mind set on imitating Federer and yes it looks good. But he has no idea what to do on the court".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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post #15 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-08-2005, 05:24 AM
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Re: How Disrepectful is the term dirtballer/claycourt specialist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devotee
But do you mostly play on clay? Give me a genuine answer.
I am not a pro player, so why is this important? I just gave a link to Corretja's feelings about the term.

On Nadal bumping him on the changeover, Rosol said: "It's ok, he wanted to take my concentration; I knew he would try something".


Wilander on Dimitrov - "He has mind set on imitating Federer and yes it looks good. But he has no idea what to do on the court".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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