Top sports statistican: Connors best in open era. Borg 2nd. Fed 3rd. Sampras 14th. - MensTennisForums.com

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post #1 of 55 (permalink) Old 06-24-2013, 01:48 PM Thread Starter
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Top sports statistican: Connors best in open era. Borg 2nd. Fed 3rd. Sampras 14th.

Okey. This seem a bit mathematical for my liking.
And you can definitely argue about its validness.
Interesting read however.

Ahead of the Wimbledon Championships, and after inputting the results of more than 20,000 Grand Slam matches involving over 1,000 players into his highly sophisticated computer model, one of the UK’s leading sports statisticians believes he has the answer: it’s Jimmy Connors.

https://theconversation.com/forget-f...greatest-15431
http://manchestergazette.co.uk/conno...-statistician/

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post #2 of 55 (permalink) Old 06-24-2013, 01:50 PM
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Re: Top sports statistican: Connors best in open era. Borg 2nd. Fed 3rd. Sampras 14th


The game bores me now

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post #3 of 55 (permalink) Old 06-24-2013, 01:50 PM
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Re: Top sports statistican: Connors best in open era. Borg 2nd. Fed 3rd. Sampras 14th

Interesting.

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post #4 of 55 (permalink) Old 06-24-2013, 01:57 PM
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Re: Top sports statistican: Connors best in open era. Borg 2nd. Fed 3rd. Sampras 14th


RIP Lemmy Kilmister
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post #5 of 55 (permalink) Old 06-24-2013, 01:59 PM
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Re: Top sports statistican: Connors best in open era. Borg 2nd. Fed 3rd. Sampras 14th

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post #6 of 55 (permalink) Old 06-24-2013, 02:02 PM
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Re: Top sports statistican: Connors best in open era. Borg 2nd. Fed 3rd. Sampras 14th

"Sampras’s 14 Grand Slams are still hugely impressive, but he achieved them when the depth of competition for titles had never been weaker."

This person seems to think opposite of what everyone else does.

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Top 10 all-time list (Open Era)
1) Federer 2) Sampras 3) Nadal 4) Laver 5) Borg
6) Rosewall 7) Agassi 8) Lendl 9) Connors 10) McEnroe
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1) Federer 2) Safin 3) Agassi 4) Sampras 5) Edberg
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post #7 of 55 (permalink) Old 06-24-2013, 02:08 PM
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Re: Top sports statistican: Connors best in open era. Borg 2nd. Fed 3rd. Sampras 14th

Another example of "If player A beats player B and player B beats player C then player A will beat player C" reasoning.
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post #8 of 55 (permalink) Old 06-24-2013, 02:20 PM
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Re: Top sports statistican: Connors best in open era. Borg 2nd. Fed 3rd. Sampras 14th

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle_Johansen View Post
"Sampras’s 14 Grand Slams are still hugely impressive, but he achieved them when the depth of competition for titles had never been weaker."

This person seems to think opposite of what everyone else does.
Exactly. Guys like Agassi, Becker, Edberg, Rafter or Ivanisevic are not weak competition.
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post #9 of 55 (permalink) Old 06-24-2013, 02:22 PM
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Re: Top sports statistican: Connors best in open era. Borg 2nd. Fed 3rd. Sampras 14th

It's a British site. I don't check British sites ... not when I want to know about tennis. Stick with gossip and drama, mkay?

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post #10 of 55 (permalink) Old 06-24-2013, 02:28 PM
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Re: Top sports statistican: Connors best in open era. Borg 2nd. Fed 3rd. Sampras 14th

Sampras won 8 of his 14 slams in the second half of the 90s, when it's fairly obvious the competition was not at its most formidable (Carlos Moya at world number one speaks for itself). 1990-92 was extremely strong, probably the best period of all time, and he only made two finals there.

On the other hand, imo his peak Wimbledon level was so high he'd likely have won most even against stronger opponents.
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post #11 of 55 (permalink) Old 06-24-2013, 02:37 PM
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Re: Top sports statistican: Connors best in open era. Borg 2nd. Fed 3rd. Sampras 14th

This link is maybe better:
https://theconversation.com/forget-f...greatest-15431

What seems strange to me is that Connors' best year in this model is 1976 instead of 1974 and Borg's best year 1977 instead of 1980. It doesn't seem like the researcher weighted tournaments and matches by their importance in this model.

The ten-year average strength actually seems a quite accurate indicator of a player's strength if you ask me.
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post #12 of 55 (permalink) Old 06-24-2013, 02:41 PM
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Re: Top sports statistican: Connors best in open era. Borg 2nd. Fed 3rd. Sampras 14th

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Originally Posted by philosophicalarf View Post
Sampras won 8 of his 14 slams in the second half of the 90s, when it's fairly obvious the competition was not at its most formidable (Carlos Moya at world number one speaks for itself). 1990-92 was extremely strong, probably the best period of all time, and he only made two finals there.

On the other hand, imo his peak Wimbledon level was so high he'd likely have won most even against stronger opponents.
This is pretty much true. But the same goes for most of the top players who manage to remain at the top for a long time; their careers span over more than one era, and the argument of one of those eras being weaker than the other can always be made. It goes for COnnors too, he won some of his slams against peak McEnroe and Borg (a VERY strong era), but then again he won 3 SLams in 1974, when the era of Borg and McEnroe was yet to emerge, and the previous generation of Laver and Rosewall was getting very old.
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post #13 of 55 (permalink) Old 06-24-2013, 02:42 PM
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Re: Top sports statistican: Connors best in open era. Borg 2nd. Fed 3rd. Sampras 14th

One thing I absolutely hate about journalism in general is that they never, ever, link to primary sources. The media usually totally misrepresents academic studies and I bet this one is no exception. If journalists get off their high horse and started citing their sources instead of always claiming press freedom for "secret source", maybe people would actually believe what they say.

It would be great if the link to the original study was posted somewhere.

Last edited by Rational Racquet; 06-24-2013 at 02:44 PM.
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post #14 of 55 (permalink) Old 06-24-2013, 02:42 PM
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Re: Top sports statistican: Connors best in open era. Borg 2nd. Fed 3rd. Sampras 14th

The whole thing makes little sense. What is the model used for getting those numbers?

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Top 10 all-time list (Open Era)
1) Federer 2) Sampras 3) Nadal 4) Laver 5) Borg
6) Rosewall 7) Agassi 8) Lendl 9) Connors 10) McEnroe
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1) Federer 2) Safin 3) Agassi 4) Sampras 5) Edberg
6) Lendl 7) Haas 8) Hewitt 9) Connors 10) Becker
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post #15 of 55 (permalink) Old 06-24-2013, 02:44 PM
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Re: Top sports statistican: Connors best in open era. Borg 2nd. Fed 3rd. Sampras 14th

Barazzutti, Bertolucci and Graebner better peak level than Sampras. I did not see that one coming.
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