What do you consider as owning in a h2h? - Page 5 - MensTennisForums.com

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post #61 of 74 (permalink) Old 05-12-2013, 12:20 AM Thread Starter
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Re: What do you consider as owning in a h2h?

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Does anyone ever understand what heya says?
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post #62 of 74 (permalink) Old 05-12-2013, 12:21 AM
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Re: What do you consider as owning in a h2h?

Miami 2009, when Fed figured him out. Monaco was the man last year. Bagel pain led to US Open good-bye.
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post #63 of 74 (permalink) Old 05-12-2013, 12:25 AM Thread Starter
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Re: What do you consider as owning in a h2h?

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Miami 2009, when Fed figured him out. Monaco was the man last year. Bagel pain led to US Open good-bye.
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post #64 of 74 (permalink) Old 05-12-2013, 01:24 AM
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Re: What do you consider as owning in a h2h?

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Fluke is how a sad pigeon loses 3 match points in Masters Cup, a Wimbledon set and a big lead in another set against Fed. Hopefully, Djoker will humiliate Fed 5+ times this year.
I don't think Fed is going to face Djoko so many times this year.
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post #65 of 74 (permalink) Old 05-12-2013, 01:25 AM
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Re: What do you consider as owning in a h2h?

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Owning has little to do with H2H (though it certainly helps). Player A is owned by player B if player B more or less systematically destroys almost all shreds of certain aura or myth surrounding player A, exposing his weaknesses better than most of the other players in the tour.

And also, there's frequently a sort of vicious circle: being owned contributes to any possible choking that might occur on the court, thus further deepening the ownage.

Good example of true ownage might be Nadal - Ferrer. Psychology is a very important factor in such deliberations. Ferrer indeed seems resigned to his destiny to not EVER beat healthy in-form Rafa, whereas Novak's general frame of mind is simply "I won't be owned. I will keep trying and trying and trying until I find the solution." And so he did recover from convincing H2Hs against Federer and Nadal in his youth.

Great post. Well said. I will also add that the master/owner wins the truly big matches. eg Nadal's head to head against Federer in the majors. Nadal owns Murray in the majors. Federer has owned a whole lot of players, particularly in the majors: Davydenko, Hewitt, Roddick etc
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post #66 of 74 (permalink) Old 05-12-2013, 01:57 AM
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Re: What do you consider as owning in a h2h?

2-1 is pretty massive ownage

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post #67 of 74 (permalink) Old 05-12-2013, 02:02 AM Thread Starter
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Re: What do you consider as owning in a h2h?

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2-1 is pretty massive ownage

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That's a 50% difference and a 67%-33% split. You may have a point there.
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post #68 of 74 (permalink) Old 05-12-2013, 02:05 AM
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Re: What do you consider as owning in a h2h?

65-32 or 55-29. No prizes for guessing what these H2Hs refer to...

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post #69 of 74 (permalink) Old 05-12-2013, 02:52 AM
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Re: What do you consider as owning in a h2h?

quite simply +5 differential with under 15 matches h2h or +7 with 20+ matches H2H... that would be a serious advantage if not "ownage".

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post #70 of 74 (permalink) Old 05-12-2013, 04:58 AM
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Re: What do you consider as owning in a h2h?

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it is the way it is, you just use the wrong example.

It's the same as Federer and Rafa, they're equalish despite the actual overall H2H, that's the whole point, it's not made on purpose to serve one or the other.

If Fed loses from Ferrer on grass, i would be the first to say he's not his pigeon anymore..

But these aside, it takes more than one match for one to be considered favorite of winning comfortably on this or that surface.

And i think that's the idea of Litotes - if the H2H per this surface is such as having the player with more wins as big favorite, then owning is achieved.

Ferrer would need to beat Federer 3 times at least on grass to rate him favorite on their 4th meeting, so i believe the system is (almost) perfect

I say almost, coz we'll need to implement a numerical denominator, coz "expected" is not exactly a perfect term for making a rule.

I believe we could put some combined bookies' odds to somehow "prove" the "expected" part and we can put it in writing

Yes, I am a little surprised to see it described as a "system", but my general thought was this. You have a matchup. For example, Federer against Ferrer. For their next match, who is favourite? Federer is. Now, for Federer and Nadal you ask she same question, who is favourite, the answer will not be an immediate "Nadal", it will be "Where are they playing?". If the H2H is such as to make the question of where they are playing less interesting, that is owning imo.
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post #71 of 74 (permalink) Old 05-12-2013, 09:50 AM
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Re: What do you consider as owning in a h2h?

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That's a 50% difference and a 67%-33% split. You may have a point there.
It's actually a 100% difference. Back to school for you old boy.

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post #72 of 74 (permalink) Old 05-12-2013, 02:35 PM Thread Starter
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Re: What do you consider as owning in a h2h?

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It's actually a 100% difference. Back to school for you old boy.
Negative old sport. 1 is 50% of 2
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post #73 of 74 (permalink) Old 05-12-2013, 03:36 PM
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Re: What do you consider as owning in a h2h?

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Negative old sport. 1 is 50% of 2
you do the difference % based on the lower number.

2 - 1 = 1 which is 100% of 1 the lower number

And yes it is massive ownage. If Murray wasn`t so scared in Toronto he may have evened the h2h up at 2-2

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post #74 of 74 (permalink) Old 05-12-2013, 05:18 PM
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Re: What do you consider as owning in a h2h?

Oh, Miami 2008. Sorry oh great heya.

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