Barcelona SF: Nadal roasts Raonic 6-4 6-0 - Page 11 - MensTennisForums.com
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post #151 of 240 (permalink) Old 04-27-2013, 08:15 PM
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Re: Barcelona SF: Nadal roasts Raonic 6-4 6-0

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+1

I actually think the Barcelona clay suits his game even more than Monte Carlo clay. It's a bit faster and even bouncier, I feel. Both suit his game perfectly to be honest, I just like how he plays in Barcelona more than in Monte Carlo. He's more aggressive and dictating more points.

perhaps the fact that he's closer to his beloved island home when in barcelona also adds an extra bit of oomph to rafa's step when he's in barça.. that said, one thing remains unchanged: in his matches on clay against any of his rivals (yeah, that means you too, nole), it all still comes down to rafa's game level first and foremost- as that normally dictates the degree of confidence he'll be operating under and hence the eventual outcome of his matches- infinitely more than any other factor(s) having to do exclusively with any of his opponents' game.. i.e., on clay, it is still all about rafa..

rafa nadal's motto: stay humble, stay hungry

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post #152 of 240 (permalink) Old 04-27-2013, 08:16 PM
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Re: Barcelona SF: Nadal roasts Raonic 6-4 6-0

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Originally Posted by MaratandMilos View Post
Yes, we've seen your brand of "facts." You've claimed that Milos hasn't improved in two years (despite his increasing winning percentages in all events and his rapidly rising ranking over that time). You also went on odd trolling tangents related to slow, wet clay and fatigue and began comparing Milos to all-time greats to diminish his career (which is really more flattering than anything else). Good fun was had indeed.
"Increased winning %?"

He reached a Slam fourth round in 2011. He hasn't improved on that.

That is a fact.
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post #153 of 240 (permalink) Old 04-27-2013, 08:16 PM
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Re: Barcelona SF: Nadal roasts Raonic 6-4 6-0

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Raonic fans are mentioning him as a Slam winner
If you could show even one example of this from any Raonic fan here, I'd love to see it. But, of course, you won't be able to, because you're quite obviously building a straw man in the attempt to give just cause to your rampant trolling.
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post #154 of 240 (permalink) Old 04-27-2013, 08:18 PM
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Re: Barcelona SF: Nadal roasts Raonic 6-4 6-0

Love the way you ignore the fact that I compared Raonic to the entire top 10.

Other than Tipsarevic and possibly Ferrer, he doesn't compare with any of the others in terms of achievements.

You pick and choose what you read in order to try and suit your Milos agenda. It's very cute.
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post #155 of 240 (permalink) Old 04-27-2013, 08:20 PM
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Re: Barcelona SF: Nadal roasts Raonic 6-4 6-0

Compared to the active Slam winners, I'd say Raonic doesn't have the same potential to do something big. But then again, those aforementioned players won't be around forever and Raonic will have to compete against his own generation. Not to mention that I've hardly seen many, if any, Raonic fans claim he will win Slams for sure.

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post #156 of 240 (permalink) Old 04-27-2013, 08:20 PM
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Re: Barcelona SF: Nadal roasts Raonic 6-4 6-0

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"Increased winning %?"
Quote:
In 2011, he went 31-19 for a 62% winning percentage. His ranking went from 152 to 31 by the end of 2011.
In 2012, he went 45-20 for a 69% winning percentage. His ranking went from 31 to 15 by the end of 2012.
In 2013, he's gone 17-6 for a 74% winning percentage. His ranking has gone from 15 to 13 and he's currently 11th in the ATP race.
Yep..this is a sign of a player who's not improving. Never mind his better results in M1000s (2 QFs) and Slams over the last six months (2 R16s).
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post #157 of 240 (permalink) Old 04-27-2013, 08:21 PM
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Re: Barcelona SF: Nadal roasts Raonic 6-4 6-0

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Yep..this is a sign of a player who's not improving.
As I said, statistics are misleading.

He has an increased win % but when you strip away the glossy look and have a look at the real detail you see that he hasn't improved his results at the majors, or at a masters event.
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post #158 of 240 (permalink) Old 04-27-2013, 08:24 PM
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Re: Barcelona SF: Nadal roasts Raonic 6-4 6-0

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Compared to the active Slam winners, I'd say Raonic doesn't have the same potential to do something big. But then again, those aforementioned players won't be around forever and Raonic will have to compete against his own generation. Not to mention that I've hardly seen many, if any, Raonic fans claim he will win Slams for sure.
None have and none will unless he improves his game to the point where it would even be realistic to make such a claim (and there are only probably seven players on tour whose fans actually can). Of course, that doesn't stop posters like WMF from making stuff up and trolling players pathetically for hours and hours in every loss thread.
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post #159 of 240 (permalink) Old 04-27-2013, 08:27 PM
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Re: Barcelona SF: Nadal roasts Raonic 6-4 6-0

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You are comparing chalk and cheese.

Raonic fans are mentioning him as a Slam winner so I am comparing him to the achievements of the current set of Slam winners and the also-rans (Berdych, Tsonga and Ferrer) as that is a valid and fair comparison.

In both scenarios Raonic is miles behind his fellow competitors.
That's a question of achievements, not improvement. Raonic hasn't achieved anything big in his career so far. He has achieved much less at his age than some of the 'greats'.

However, if he continues to improve each year, then eventually he may be in a position to get some big wins. By denying improvement then you deny the possibility of progress. Denying achievements on the other hand is just a question of historical record.
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post #160 of 240 (permalink) Old 04-27-2013, 08:27 PM
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Re: Barcelona SF: Nadal roasts Raonic 6-4 6-0

Raonic can servebot his way to a Wimbledon title, especially indoors but he's definitely not up there for potential. At least Dimitrov can play some shots even if both their movement is poor.


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post #161 of 240 (permalink) Old 04-27-2013, 08:28 PM
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Re: Barcelona SF: Nadal roasts Raonic 6-4 6-0

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That's a question of achievements, not improvement. Raonic hasn't achieved anything big in his career so far. He has achieved much less at his age than some of the 'greats'.

However, if he continues to improve each year, then eventually he may be in a position to get some big wins. By denying improvement then you deny the possibility of progress. Denying achievements on the other hand is just a question of historical record.
I am denying entirely that there has been a massive improvement. There is absolutely no evidence for that.

He is slightly more consistent, but in terms of improvement I simply don't see it.
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post #162 of 240 (permalink) Old 04-27-2013, 08:29 PM
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Re: Barcelona SF: Nadal roasts Raonic 6-4 6-0

epic thread monotony.

| Wins over 3+ of the Top 4. Players to reach all slam QFs+ in history. Hawkeye/Line Calls. QFs+ at Slams & Masters, but never Top 20.
Haas / The Fog / Tsonga / Gojowczyk / Brown / Nole / Mahut / Sijsling / Dolgo / Cuevas / Fed / Stan / Baker / Alund / Kei / Tursunov / Copil / Bolelli / Brands / Benneteau / Steps / Stakh / PHM
Rafter / Edberg / Henman / Stich / Safin / Gambill / Grosjean / Malisse / Gonzo / Llodra / Santoro / Agassi / Schalken / Nováček / Rosewall / H-T Lee / Kuerten / Boetsch / Pavel / Sundström / Björkman / Scud / El Aynaoui / Arazi / Calleri / Sampras / Nalbandian / Mosquito / Srichaphan / Pioline
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post #163 of 240 (permalink) Old 04-27-2013, 08:30 PM
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Re: Barcelona SF: Nadal roasts Raonic 6-4 6-0

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Originally Posted by MaratandMilos View Post
None have and none will unless he improves his game to the point where it would even be realistic to make such a claim (and there are only probably seven players on tour whose fans actually can). Of course, that doesn't stop posters like WMF from making stuff up and trolling players pathetically for hours and hours in every loss thread.
Yup, I'm afraid WMF is tilting at windmills here.

Regarding Raonic, he's relatively new on tour and young and he is among the 10-12 best players in the world probably, so obviously he's pretty good. I said in another thread that I fear he might face the same problem Del Potro has after his surgery: he keeps getting niggly injuries all the time (and withdrawing from events sometimes), which makes it very hard to build momentum. It's even tougher for him because, unlike JMDP who has already proved himself and has the confidence of being a Slam winner, Raonic must be eager to have a breakthrough run at a big event - which is not viable unless he manages to build confidence and momentum over a sustained period of time. I feel these niggly injuries he seems to get far too often have held him back and could continue to do so.

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Suicide Tennis (5): Wimbledon 2014, World Tour Finals 2015, Madrid 2015, Kuala Lumpur 2014 and Metz 2015 - 1 Slam, 1 WTF, 1 Masters 1000, 2 ATP 250; 2 finals lost

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post #164 of 240 (permalink) Old 04-27-2013, 08:31 PM
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Re: Barcelona SF: Nadal roasts Raonic 6-4 6-0

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As I said, statistics are misleading.
Oh, so winning more matches and seeing your ranking rise immensely in two short years (from 150s to near 10) is a sign of a player regressing then?

Quote:
He has an increased win % but when you strip away the glossy look and have a look at the real detail you see that he hasn't improved his results at the majors, or at a masters event.
You'd have to ignore his two career-high QFs from last fall on hard courts to suggest he hasn't improved in M1000s. And in Milos' first four slams, he went 4-4. In Milos last five slams, he's gone 11-5. Yep, no improvement at all there either.

The rate at which these troll attempts are failing is glorious.
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post #165 of 240 (permalink) Old 04-27-2013, 08:32 PM
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Re: Barcelona SF: Nadal roasts Raonic 6-4 6-0

Perhaps we need an 'Endless Raonic: Improving or not? debates ' thread.

Agassi | Nadal
Almagro | Coria | Ferrer | Haas | Nalbandian | Nishikori | Robredo | Wawrinka
Bautista Agut | Bellucci | Blake | Dimitrov | Dodig | Ferrero | Fognini | Gasquet | Hewitt | Kohlschreiber | Murray | Raonic | Rosol | Seppi | Tsonga | Tursunov | Verdasco
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