The reality is that del Potro is easily the fourth best tennis player in the world - Page 9 - MensTennisForums.com

View Poll Results: Is del Potro the fifth best tennis player on planet Earth at the moment?
Yes, easily 81 29.14%
It's between him and Berdych/Tsonga or both 59 21.22%
No, Ferrer is 110 39.57%
He's one of the best four 28 10.07%
Voters: 278. You may not vote on this poll

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post #121 of 1267 (permalink) Old 04-23-2013, 12:23 AM Thread Starter
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Re: The reality is that del Potro is easily the fifth best tennis player in the world

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Originally Posted by HumanCondition View Post
Yet a decent period of good health for Del Potro is seldom. What is more ludicrous is you openly come out and say he is easily the fifth best player in the world. Sure, I'll agree to that if he, you know, stays consistent. Making the Indian Wells final was exceptional and I thoroughly enjoyed his victories over Murray and Djokovic. Two weeks later, he has an early-round exit at Miami. You just don't know what you'll get from Delpo. With Ferrer, there is an underlying sense of certainty.
Indeed, you can be certain that he will fold in every big match he plays without offering any resistance.

Del Potro is easily the fifth best player in the world, I stand by that. Even the top 4 know that, compare their approach towards JMDP (pre/post match) to the one they take vs Ferrer/Tsonga/Berdych/etc... he's not viewed as an outside threat and with good reason - they all know that at his best he can go toe to toe with them.

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Originally Posted by Looner View Post
A quick calculation tells me JMDP should aim for the same feat as Safin - win the USO and a few years later win the AO. The 2014 AO is obviously his. Vamos .
That'd be awesome. A second Slam for JMDP would be an incredible story after everything he's been through, a real triumph of human perseverence in sports/tennis

MTF games titles:

Suicide Tennis (5): Wimbledon 2014, World Tour Finals 2015, Madrid 2015, Kuala Lumpur 2014 and Metz 2015 - 1 Slam, 1 WTF, 1 Masters 1000, 2 ATP 250; 2 finals lost

Fill-in-the-Draw (3): US Open 2014, Rotterdam 2013 and Geneva 2015 - 1 Slam, 1 ATP 500 and 1 ATP 250

Tennis Tipping (3): Veneza and Todi 2014 (with vn01), Knoxville 2015 (with Redkop) - 3 challengers; 7 finals lost
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post #122 of 1267 (permalink) Old 04-23-2013, 12:31 AM
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Re: The reality is that del Potro is easily the fifth best tennis player in the world

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Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
Indeed, you can be certain that he will fold in every big match he plays without offering any resistance.

Del Potro is easily the fifth best player in the world, I stand by that. Even the top 4 know that, compare their approach towards JMDP (pre/post match) to the one they take vs Ferrer/Tsonga/Berdych/etc... he's not viewed as an outside threat and with good reason - they all know that at his best he can go toe to toe with them.
Ferrer has an atrocious record against the top players, I'll give you that. But I am more confident with Ferrer winning a round 2 Grand Slam match than Del Potro winning a round 2 Grand Slam match. Ferrer is a very static player; never playing too below or above himself. This is both a positive and negative, although it nevertheless reassures certainty and demonstrates his consistency as a player. Del Potro can play well above or well below himself. Again, both positive and negative, but it also makes himself an inconsistent and unpredictable player. Had Del Potro won Indian Wells against Nadal, it's pretty safe to say he would have had the same early-round exist at Miami. Del Potro at his peak is superior to Ferrer at his peak, but unfortunately for you, tennis isn't a game of bursts.

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post #123 of 1267 (permalink) Old 04-23-2013, 12:36 AM Thread Starter
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Re: The reality is that del Potro is easily the fifth best tennis player in the world

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Originally Posted by HumanCondition View Post
Ferrer has an atrocious record against the top players, I'll give you that. But I am more confident with Ferrer winning a round 2 Grand Slam match than Del Potro winning a round 2 Grand Slam match. Ferrer is a very static player; never playing too below or above himself. This is both a positive and negative, although it nevertheless reassures certainty and demonstrates his consistency as a player. Del Potro can play well above or well below himself. Again, both positive and negative, but it also makes himself an inconsistent and unpredictable player. Had Del Potro won Indian Wells against Nadal, it's pretty safe to say he would have had the same early-round exist at Miami. Del Potro at his peak is superior to Ferrer at his peak, but unfortunately for you, tennis isn't a game of bursts.
This unpredictability you speak of though is due to how injury prone he is, he can hardly string tournaments without picking up an injury. When he does do that and gathers confidence/momentum, he's way above Ferrer in every way. Even while struggling physically though, Del Potro remains a bigger threat to the elite anyway (even if more prone to being upset) so it's a moot point anyway.

As I said before, the only thing the other players mentioned in this thread have over JMDP is a better fitness/health record (and higher absolute peak in Tsonga's case).

MTF games titles:

Suicide Tennis (5): Wimbledon 2014, World Tour Finals 2015, Madrid 2015, Kuala Lumpur 2014 and Metz 2015 - 1 Slam, 1 WTF, 1 Masters 1000, 2 ATP 250; 2 finals lost

Fill-in-the-Draw (3): US Open 2014, Rotterdam 2013 and Geneva 2015 - 1 Slam, 1 ATP 500 and 1 ATP 250

Tennis Tipping (3): Veneza and Todi 2014 (with vn01), Knoxville 2015 (with Redkop) - 3 challengers; 7 finals lost
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post #124 of 1267 (permalink) Old 04-23-2013, 12:40 AM
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Re: The reality is that del Potro is easily the fifth best tennis player in the world

So injury prone that he decides to play Estoril.

When are you going to address the facts, logic and evidence with the knowledgeable posters in the other thread mate? I notice you keep dodging this question...

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post #125 of 1267 (permalink) Old 04-23-2013, 12:48 AM Thread Starter
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Re: The reality is that del Potro is easily the fifth best tennis player in the world

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Originally Posted by Hewitt =Legend View Post
So injury prone that he decides to play Estoril.

When are you going to address the facts, logic and evidence with the knowledgeable posters in the other thread mate? I notice you keep dodging this question...
He needs to play, giving up just because he keeps getting injured isn't an alternative - that's why where he is where he is now, doing much better than could have been expected and than most others players/athletes ever did post-major surgery.

And there are no facts, logic or evidence in the other thread. A thread that claims a GS winner (beating Fedal back to back no less) is a vulture should hardly be taken seriously

MTF games titles:

Suicide Tennis (5): Wimbledon 2014, World Tour Finals 2015, Madrid 2015, Kuala Lumpur 2014 and Metz 2015 - 1 Slam, 1 WTF, 1 Masters 1000, 2 ATP 250; 2 finals lost

Fill-in-the-Draw (3): US Open 2014, Rotterdam 2013 and Geneva 2015 - 1 Slam, 1 ATP 500 and 1 ATP 250

Tennis Tipping (3): Veneza and Todi 2014 (with vn01), Knoxville 2015 (with Redkop) - 3 challengers; 7 finals lost

Last edited by Mark Lenders; 04-23-2013 at 12:51 AM.
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post #126 of 1267 (permalink) Old 04-23-2013, 12:51 AM
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Re: The reality is that del Potro is easily the fifth best tennis player in the world

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Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
This unpredictability you speak of though is due to how injury prone he is, he can hardly string tournaments without picking up an injury. When he does do that and gathers confidence/momentum, he's way above Ferrer in every way. Even while struggling physically though, Del Potro remains a bigger threat to the elite anyway (even if more prone to being upset) so it's a moot point anyway.

As I said before, the only thing the other players mentioned in this thread have over JMDP is a better fitness/health record (and higher absolute peak in Tsonga's case).
So all the time he has an underwhelming performance (which is quite frequent across a year), it's directly correlated with injury and no sheer inconsistency? Okay then. Del Potro does this to himself. He needs to schedule wiser. He has played a string of back-to-back tournaments already in 2013. Not good if he is easily prone to injury, is it? When Del Potro has that rare burst of momentum, he is clearly a sublime player and superior to Ferrer, but this does not happen enough, and it's because of his heavy scheduling (which slightly corresponds to his injury prone body), and, at times, erratic on-court performances. To blame all of his substandard performances on injury is impervious. Since I am a huge fan of Del Potro, I truly hope the man can prove me wrong and string together some decent tournaments.

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post #127 of 1267 (permalink) Old 04-23-2013, 12:58 AM Thread Starter
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Re: The reality is that del Potro is easily the fifth best tennis player in the world

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Originally Posted by HumanCondition View Post
So all the time he has an underwhelming performance (which is quite frequent across a year), it's directly correlated with injury and no sheer inconsistency? Okay then. Del Potro does this to himself. He needs to schedule wiser. He has played a string of back-to-back tournaments already in 2013. Not good if he is easily prone to injury, is it? When Del Potro has that rare burst of momentum, he is clearly a sublime player and superior to Ferrer, but this does not happen enough, and it's because of his heavy scheduling (which slightly corresponds to his injury prone body), and, at times, erratic on-court performances. To blame all of his substandard performances on injury is impervious. Since I am a huge fan of Del Potro, I truly hope the man can prove me wrong and string together some decent tournaments.
One is related to the other. Do you remember him being inconsistent back in 2009 for instance when he was only 20? Consistency is a big challenge when you struggle to gather any meaningful momentum; his IW run was great, for instance, but it was obvious that it had been a sort of fluke because he was dealing with left wrist issues and was hardly going to get any momentum off it. Not a fluke in the sense that he didn't deserve his results, but in the sense that they came from a kind of effort that was hardly sustainable (tricking the top players in the world with slices and drop shots, etc...) and sure to be interrupted.

I do agree scheduling wisely will be key for JMDP to do anything meaningful in the coming years, in his case it's absolutely imperative. He has been guilty of passing cheques his body can't cash far too often; I understand he was eager to return to the top 8 for seeding purposes but now that he's there he should really schedule wisely and attempt to peak for the big events imo. Do you see anyone else below the current top 4 capable of really making damage in big events? I thought so...

MTF games titles:

Suicide Tennis (5): Wimbledon 2014, World Tour Finals 2015, Madrid 2015, Kuala Lumpur 2014 and Metz 2015 - 1 Slam, 1 WTF, 1 Masters 1000, 2 ATP 250; 2 finals lost

Fill-in-the-Draw (3): US Open 2014, Rotterdam 2013 and Geneva 2015 - 1 Slam, 1 ATP 500 and 1 ATP 250

Tennis Tipping (3): Veneza and Todi 2014 (with vn01), Knoxville 2015 (with Redkop) - 3 challengers; 7 finals lost

Last edited by Mark Lenders; 04-23-2013 at 01:02 AM.
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post #128 of 1267 (permalink) Old 04-23-2013, 01:07 AM
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Re: The reality is that del Potro is easily the fifth best tennis player in the world

I voted for Ferrer because he is ranked #5 on the ATP rankings.

OP may be on drugs.
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post #129 of 1267 (permalink) Old 04-23-2013, 01:08 AM
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Re: The reality is that del Potro is easily the fifth best tennis player in the world

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I do agree scheduling wisely will be key for JMDP to do anything meaningful in the coming years, in his case it's absolutely imperative. He has been guilty of passing cheques his body can't cash far too often; I understand he was eager to return to the top 8 for seeding purposes but now that he's there he should really schedule wisely and attempt to peak for the big events imo.
Well, I think that answers the question discernibly. If Del Potro wants to try and gain momentum and consistency, he needs to stay injury-free. One of the integral ways in doing such a thing is schedule wiser and not constantly travel/compete. It's really that easy. If Delpo wants to start achieving satisfactorily bigger results at significant tournaments, he needs to slap himself on the wrist (preferably right; don't want to harm the left), and get his shit together. If he continues at this erratic rate, this type of inconsistency and substandard results will follow him into the end of his career. If he's happy with winning the odd 250 and 500 title here and there, that's fine by me, but a whole load of talent is being washed down the drain. At the moment, however, Ferrer is still clearly #5. Like I said, I'd feel safer betting on Ferrer than Del Potro against another top 30 player.

And can I see someone troubling the big four, mentally, at an important event? Sure. Berdych against Federer.

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post #130 of 1267 (permalink) Old 04-23-2013, 01:08 AM
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Re: The reality is that del Potro is easily the fifth best tennis player in the world

OMG Agassi is the real number five! Are you telling me Ferrer is better? Don't even.
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post #131 of 1267 (permalink) Old 04-23-2013, 01:13 AM Thread Starter
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Re: The reality is that del Potro is easily the fifth best tennis player in the world

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Originally Posted by HumanCondition View Post
Well, I think that answers the question discernibly. If Del Potro wants to try and gain momentum and consistency, he needs to stay injury-free. One of the integral ways in doing such a thing is schedule wiser and not constantly travel/compete. It's really that easy. If Delpo wants to start achieving satisfactorily bigger results at significant tournaments, he needs to slap himself on the wrist (preferably right; don't want to harm the left), and get his shit together. If he continues at this erratic rate, this type of inconsistency and substandard results will follow him into the end of his career. If he's happy with winning the odd 250 and 500 title here and there, that's fine by me, but a whole load of talent is being washed down the drain. At the moment, however, Ferrer is still clearly #5. Like I said, I'd feel safer betting on Ferrer than Del Potro against another top 30 player.

And can I see someone troubling the big four, mentally, at an important event? Sure. Berdych against Federer.
There's a key differnce: Berdych can trouble one of them in that way, JMDP can trouble all of them and he's much more likely to close out in a SF/F than Berdych too.

Mostly agree about the rest, I've thought that Del Potro should schedule lightly and focus around peaking for Slams ever since he returned to the top 8 last year. His body just isn't built for top level tennis all year long sadly, he needs to pick his battles if he wants to have a shot at another Slam.

MTF games titles:

Suicide Tennis (5): Wimbledon 2014, World Tour Finals 2015, Madrid 2015, Kuala Lumpur 2014 and Metz 2015 - 1 Slam, 1 WTF, 1 Masters 1000, 2 ATP 250; 2 finals lost

Fill-in-the-Draw (3): US Open 2014, Rotterdam 2013 and Geneva 2015 - 1 Slam, 1 ATP 500 and 1 ATP 250

Tennis Tipping (3): Veneza and Todi 2014 (with vn01), Knoxville 2015 (with Redkop) - 3 challengers; 7 finals lost
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post #132 of 1267 (permalink) Old 04-23-2013, 01:29 AM
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Re: The reality is that del Potro is easily the fifth best tennis player in the world

Unless he gets a proper backhand and or fitness levels improve he has no realistic chance at a deep run at a slam.
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post #133 of 1267 (permalink) Old 04-23-2013, 01:56 AM
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Re: The reality is than del Potro is easily the fifth best tennis player in the world

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No Ferrer is. End of discussion.
I AGREE. At his very best, Delpo is better than Ferrer on fast courts, but David is more consistent and has better stamina than Delpo.
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post #134 of 1267 (permalink) Old 04-23-2013, 02:39 AM
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Re: The reality is that del Potro is easily the fifth best tennis player in the world

when Novak is about to play Delpo I feel the same as if he is going to play Tsonga or Berdych.........so no
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post #135 of 1267 (permalink) Old 04-23-2013, 02:46 AM Thread Starter
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Re: The reality is that del Potro is easily the fifth best tennis player in the world

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when Novak is about to play Delpo I feel the same as if he is going to play Tsonga or Berdych.........so no
Well, you shouldn't

H2H since Novak became the top player in 2011:

vs Tsonga - 8-0 (17-3 in sets)

vs Berdych - 9-0 (18-4 in sets)

vs Del Potro - 5-3 (could easily be 4-4 since he was a set and a break up in WTF semis).


Novak is dominating 'inconsistent' big hitters in the same way Federer in his prime did. You might not feel the difference between facing Tsonga/Berdych or Delpo, but Novak sure does Even slightly injured JMDP is usually more of a handful to him.

MTF games titles:

Suicide Tennis (5): Wimbledon 2014, World Tour Finals 2015, Madrid 2015, Kuala Lumpur 2014 and Metz 2015 - 1 Slam, 1 WTF, 1 Masters 1000, 2 ATP 250; 2 finals lost

Fill-in-the-Draw (3): US Open 2014, Rotterdam 2013 and Geneva 2015 - 1 Slam, 1 ATP 500 and 1 ATP 250

Tennis Tipping (3): Veneza and Todi 2014 (with vn01), Knoxville 2015 (with Redkop) - 3 challengers; 7 finals lost
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