The reality is that del Potro is easily the fourth best tennis player in the world - Page 10 - MensTennisForums.com

View Poll Results: Is del Potro the fifth best tennis player on planet Earth at the moment?
Yes, easily 81 29.14%
It's between him and Berdych/Tsonga or both 59 21.22%
No, Ferrer is 110 39.57%
He's one of the best four 28 10.07%
Voters: 278. You may not vote on this poll

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post #136 of 1267 (permalink) Old 04-23-2013, 03:06 AM
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Re: The reality is that del Potro is easily the fifth best tennis player in the world

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Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
How about voting honestly? This is the real issue here: people who vote Ferrer either follow the rankigns blindly or just do it as a wind-up. Any unbiased observer can easily conclude that there are only four people in the world whose ability to play tennis exceeds Del Potro at this point in time and none of them has wings.
I'm a big fan of JMDP (much more than Ferrer FWIW)...and he has a better chance of challenging the top 4 then Ferrer because he is a much more dangerous player in terms of shotmaking and power. However, Ferrer is more consistent and competes better over the course of a full tennis season. I can't say that JMDP is better overall...his highest level is better but his consistency drops him below.
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post #137 of 1267 (permalink) Old 04-23-2013, 04:12 AM
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Re: The reality is that del Potro is easily the fifth best tennis player in the world

He might be (it's between Berdych and him), but it will be Milos some day. So watch out. Unless Gulbis gets there first.
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post #138 of 1267 (permalink) Old 04-23-2013, 04:20 AM
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Re: The reality is that del Potro is easily the fifth best tennis player in the world

Mark Lenders, weren't you the one who said Gulbis was a better tennis player than Ferrer a few months ago? The same Ernests Gulbis who has only advanced past the 2nd round of a slam once.

Let's look at the last 4 meetings between Ferrer and Del Potro.

Ferrer defeated Del Potro on clay at the Davis cup final in December of 2011.
Ferrer defeated Del Potro on outdoor hardcourt at Miami, 2012.
Ferrer defeated Del Potro on grass at Wimbledon 2012.
Ferrer defeated Del Potro on indoor hardcourt at WTF 2012.


When Del Potro is on his A game, he is a much better player than Ferrer. Ferrer doesn't nearly have the weapons Del Potro has. However, the current Del Potro is rarely on his A game. Ferrer has produced much better results than Del Potro, and he currently is a better player.

The rankings are supposed to indicate the best players currently, not gauge future potential. Currently, Ferrer has better results than Del Potro, in every slam. In addition, he has owned him head to head.

On what basis does Del Potro qualify as a better player than Ferrer?

Mark Lenders you remind me of a friend who claims John Daly is a better golfer than Tiger Woods.

Last edited by Say Hey Kid; 04-23-2013 at 04:24 AM.
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post #139 of 1267 (permalink) Old 04-23-2013, 04:20 AM
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Re: The reality is that del Potro is easily the fifth best tennis player in the world

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Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
Well, you shouldn't

H2H since Novak became the top player in 2011:

vs Tsonga - 8-0 (17-3 in sets)

vs Berdych - 9-0 (18-4 in sets)

vs Del Potro - 5-3 (could easily be 4-4 since he was a set and a break up in WTF semis).


Novak is dominating 'inconsistent' big hitters in the same way Federer in his prime did. You might not feel the difference between facing Tsonga/Berdych or Delpo, but Novak sure does Even slightly injured JMDP is usually more of a handful to him.
Wow, didn't realize it was that close. Again I realize how much I underestimate him.

Players I support for non-tennis reasons: Murray/Ferrer/Monaco/Nadal/Isner/Li

del Potro/Nalbandian/Safin
Tsonga/Gulbis/Monfils/Dolgopolov/Verdasco
Davydenko/Kyrgios/Cilic/Muguruza
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post #140 of 1267 (permalink) Old 04-23-2013, 04:25 AM
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Re: The reality is that del Potro is easily the fifth best tennis player in the world

That's like saying: who's #5, Dullpotro, Tsonga, Roddick or Blake?

Ferrer clearly got better and smarter and Dullpotro is too tall and slow. He choked on every surface against a bunch of players ranked below 20, not just vs. Federer.
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post #141 of 1267 (permalink) Old 04-23-2013, 04:56 AM
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Re: The reality is that del Potro is easily the fifth best tennis player in the world

^ Dullpotro

Life is an orange and you're just a little pip.

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post #142 of 1267 (permalink) Old 04-23-2013, 05:07 AM
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Re: The reality is that del Potro is easily the fifth best tennis player in the world

Obviously Del Potro is still injured.
Without injury he will be invincible like Nadal.
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post #143 of 1267 (permalink) Old 04-23-2013, 08:23 AM
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Re: The reality is that del Potro is easily the fifth best tennis player in the world

Why is it that the third option is the only option containing strong emotive language by using the word 'blindly'? By choosing this option, members will be agreeing with the OP that they are ignorant or irrational in thinking that Ferrer is the fifth best player at the moment. Is it not possible to rationally consider 'X player' to be the fifth best player at the moment, given that he was ranked fifth for most of the time AND has the best results over the last 52 weeks of any player bar Fed/Rafa/Nole/Andy?

So by voting for Ferrer, members are in a lose-lose situation. They can vote Ferrer and be considered 'blind' or they can vote another option which they may not believe to be the 'reality'.

Players performing at the highest level over a 52-week period since I started following tennis:

Federer

Nadal Djokovic

Hewitt Roddick Murray Ferrero (Tard #28) Agassi

Kuerten Ferrer Coria Davydenko Del Potro Safin Nalbandian Ljubicic Wawrinka
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post #144 of 1267 (permalink) Old 04-23-2013, 08:43 AM
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Re: The reality is that del Potro is easily the fifth best tennis player in the world

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Originally Posted by Deathless Mortal View Post
It's not like he was randomly given his ranking. He earned it. The fact that Del Potro is unable to get as high in the rankings is his problem. And no, it's not about the vulturing, as the other thread perfectly showed that Delpo is a bigger vulture of the two.
I'm just gonna go and sig this. And then show up whenever this crackpot opens his mouth on the subject.

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post #145 of 1267 (permalink) Old 04-23-2013, 08:54 AM
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Re: The reality is that del Potro is easily the fifth best tennis player in the world

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No way that vulture is better player than Del potro
It's not just about results, vuluturing etc, it's about SKILLS
The only better technical element which he has is his return.

He is limited and he shows his limited game every time he faced top player.
ATP is assholes with their politic, rankings and seeding system. Ferrer is THE WORST NUMBER 4 ever due to TENNIS which he shows.

Strong era, when less talented player in top-50 is number 4.
The only better technical element which Delpo has over Ferrer is his HEIGHT. David's game is perfectly logical and suited for someone who can't gain an immediate advantage in the point with his serve.

I know insanity lurks here, but - how would you advise ATP arseholes to change the rankings system to avoid such injustices?

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post #146 of 1267 (permalink) Old 04-23-2013, 09:16 AM
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Re: The reality is that del Potro is easily the fifth best tennis player in the world

They should definitely consider handing out rankings based on potential.
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post #147 of 1267 (permalink) Old 04-23-2013, 09:51 AM
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Re: The reality is that del Potro is easily the fifth best tennis player in the world

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Originally Posted by retister View Post
The only better technical element which Delpo has over Ferrer is his HEIGHT. David's game is perfectly logical and suited for someone who can't gain an immediate advantage in the point with his serve.

I know insanity lurks here, but - how would you advise ATP arseholes to change the rankings system to avoid such injustices?
do not seed 32 guys on slams and 16 guys on masters.
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post #148 of 1267 (permalink) Old 04-23-2013, 10:03 AM
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Re: The reality is that del Potro is easily the fifth best tennis player in the world

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Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
Well, you shouldn't

H2H since Novak became the top player in 2011:

vs Tsonga - 8-0 (17-3 in sets)

vs Berdych - 9-0 (18-4 in sets)

vs Del Potro - 5-3 (could easily be 4-4 since he was a set and a break up in WTF semis).


Novak is dominating 'inconsistent' big hitters in the same way Federer in his prime did. You might not feel the difference between facing Tsonga/Berdych or Delpo, but Novak sure does Even slightly injured JMDP is usually more of a handful to him.
I don't agree with this. I use to fear Tsonga more than Delpo and Berdych (I don't fear Berdych at all ).

Not saying Delpo's wins aren't legit, but out of those 3, 1st was due to ret. and you know that if Novak wasn't injured in that match, he would beat Delpo. He would retire against Tsonga and maybe even Berdych too. As for the 2nd match, I feel that Tsonga and even Berdych would beat him in the bronze match. He was so disappointed that he couldn't get the gold that he didn't care much for the bronze he already had.

I do 'fear' Delpo more than Tsonga atm, but that's just in my eyes, seeing them play and Tsonga being in a not so good form for almost a year now, not because of those wins, imo, those wins don't mean a thing.

And those coulda woulda shouldas, I don't count. I mean, you chose to ignore Tsonga's mps but underline Delpo's set and break up. We all know that being a set and a break up against Novak doesn't have to mean a thing.

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post #149 of 1267 (permalink) Old 04-23-2013, 10:06 AM Thread Starter
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Re: The reality is that del Potro is easily the fifth best tennis player in the world

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Originally Posted by MaratandMilos View Post
He might be (it's between Berdych and him), but it will be Milos some day. So watch out. Unless Gulbis gets there first.
Both Del Potro and those guys you mention have the potential to be more than the fifth best player. In fact, JMDP was once the third best player in the world, before leaving the tour for surgery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vpmrosulate View Post
Wow, didn't realize it was that close. Again I realize how much I underestimate him.
It's hardly a surprise. What Djokovic mostly has over him is (much) better fitness and resistance to injuries during his prime (it's not only this, but mainly), hence the large difference in career achievements and current level. However, when JMDP is fit/healthy, he can most definitely compete on even terms with Novak on a tennis court and does not fear him (or anyone else) in any way.

MTF games titles:

Suicide Tennis (5): Wimbledon 2014, World Tour Finals 2015, Madrid 2015, Kuala Lumpur 2014 and Metz 2015 - 1 Slam, 1 WTF, 1 Masters 1000, 2 ATP 250; 2 finals lost

Fill-in-the-Draw (3): US Open 2014, Rotterdam 2013 and Geneva 2015 - 1 Slam, 1 ATP 500 and 1 ATP 250

Tennis Tipping (3): Veneza and Todi 2014 (with vn01), Knoxville 2015 (with Redkop) - 3 challengers; 7 finals lost
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post #150 of 1267 (permalink) Old 04-23-2013, 10:07 AM
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Re: The reality is that del Potro is easily the fifth best tennis player in the world

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Originally Posted by New Balls Please View Post
Why is it that the third option is the only option containing strong emotive language by using the word 'blindly'? By choosing this option, members will be agreeing with the OP that they are ignorant or irrational in thinking that Ferrer is the fifth best player at the moment. Is it not possible to rationally consider 'X player' to be the fifth best player at the moment, given that he was ranked fifth for most of the time AND has the best results over the last 52 weeks of any player bar Fed/Rafa/Nole/Andy?

So by voting for Ferrer, members are in a lose-lose situation. They can vote Ferrer and be considered 'blind' or they can vote another option which they may not believe to be the 'reality'.
Exactly why I haven't voted at all. For a supposedly "unbiased analyst" (in his own opinion), Lenders is sure good at biased polls.

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