Who are the Clay court specialists? - Page 2 - MensTennisForums.com

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #16 of 129 (permalink) Old 04-03-2013, 10:42 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 994
                     
Re: Who are the Clay court specialists?

Berdych and Del Potro better than Ferrer on clay?

Is that a joke?
Surcouf is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #17 of 129 (permalink) Old 04-03-2013, 10:44 AM
Registered User
 
leng jai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Oxford (at heart)
Age: 29
Posts: 24,210
                     
Re: Who are the Clay court specialists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surcouf View Post
Berdych and Del Potro better than Ferrer on clay?

Is that a joke?
They're more dangerous but not necessarily better. In other words the same sort of comparison on hard court.

WARNING: This signature may contain extreme traces of bullying and glory hunting
TOMMY HASS
0 slams () and 0 finals
0 consecutive weeks at world no. 1
0 consecutive Laureus World Sports Awards
0 times qualified for YEC
3-13 H2H against Rogi Featherer
0-5 H2H against Rafito Nadal
Career low ranking: 1,241 (26.06.1995)
0 fake mullets flaunted in Roland Garros finals.
0 double bagels consumed against Raonic on grass
1 first name in common with Tommy Robredo
leng jai is offline  
post #18 of 129 (permalink) Old 04-03-2013, 10:45 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Age: 35
Posts: 3,730
                     
Re: Who are the Clay court specialists?

I'd say Pics is more of a slow court specialist in general with his demanding grinding style. And yes, theoretically he should fare better on slow hardcourts than on clay due to his inability to generate a lot of pace. Same as Murray really

Topspindoctor
You know you're an epic level mug if you get double bageled by Petzschner
madmax is offline  
post #19 of 129 (permalink) Old 04-03-2013, 10:46 AM
Registered User
 
Abel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,457
                     
Re: Who are the Clay court specialists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surcouf View Post
I don't think he would. There is a good reason he plays the events on clay. And is seeded due to that, which allow him to progress in some of the HC tournament he plays.

According to the ATP website stats, he has a losing record on all surfaces, excepted clay. The definition of a clay specialist. He was also unlucky to see his 3 1/4 run in Roland Garros being stopped by Nadal. If he was on the other side of the draw, he could have done better.
The fact remains he can still compete with almost anyone on a HC when not in mental midget mode
Abel is offline  
post #20 of 129 (permalink) Old 04-03-2013, 10:46 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 994
                     
Re: Who are the Clay court specialists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by madmax View Post
I'd say Pics is more of a slow court specialist in general with his demanding grinding style. And yes, theoretically he should fare better on slow hardcourts than on clay due to his inability to generate a lot of pace. Same as Murray really
Murray isn't a slow court player. Ferrer is better than Murray on clay despite having less weapons.
Surcouf is offline  
post #21 of 129 (permalink) Old 04-03-2013, 10:49 AM
Registered User
 
Mark Lenders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
Posts: 17,238
                     
Re: Who are the Clay court specialists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surcouf View Post
Berdych and Del Potro better than Ferrer on clay?

Is that a joke?
Nope, it's undeniable fact.

Ferrer reaching his first RG SF at 30yo with one of the weakest draws conceivable and suddenly being hyped as some sort of great player on clay is the only joke here.

MTF games titles:

Suicide Tennis (5): Wimbledon 2014, World Tour Finals 2015, Madrid 2015, Kuala Lumpur 2014 and Metz 2015 - 1 Slam, 1 WTF, 1 Masters 1000, 2 ATP 250; 2 finals lost

Fill-in-the-Draw (3): US Open 2014, Rotterdam 2013 and Geneva 2015 - 1 Slam, 1 ATP 500 and 1 ATP 250

Tennis Tipping (3): Veneza and Todi 2014 (with vn01), Knoxville 2015 (with Redkop) - 3 challengers; 7 finals lost
Mark Lenders is offline  
post #22 of 129 (permalink) Old 04-03-2013, 10:49 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 994
                     
Re: Who are the Clay court specialists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by leng jai View Post
They're more dangerous but not necessarily better. In other words the same sort of comparison on hard court.
It depends for who. If it against Federer, yes, if it is against anyone else, no.

Ferrer has better clay seasons than both of them, more titles, and would beat them more times than the contrary in H2H matchs.
Surcouf is offline  
post #23 of 129 (permalink) Old 04-03-2013, 10:50 AM
Registered User
 
Abel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,457
                     
Re: Who are the Clay court specialists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surcouf View Post
Ferrer is better than Murray on clay despite having less weapons.
And why do you think that is? Do you think that will still be the case this season now Murray's FH is improved?
Abel is offline  
post #24 of 129 (permalink) Old 04-03-2013, 10:52 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 994
                     
Re: Who are the Clay court specialists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
Nope, it's undeniable fact.

Ferrer reaching his first RG SF at 30yo with one of the weakest draws conceivable and suddenly being hyped as some sort of great player on clay is the only joke here.
Ferrer would have reached the SF in 2005 if he did not run into Nadal. Remmeber how far did Del Potro go when he run into Nadal at RG?

I admit that Ferrer has had a RG problem, where all the good play he had done during the clay season did not materialize in RG. But for the surface in general, he is much better than Berdych and Del Potro. And I am sure you did not forget that decisive Davis Cup match on clay.
Surcouf is offline  
post #25 of 129 (permalink) Old 04-03-2013, 10:54 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 994
                     
Re: Who are the Clay court specialists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abel View Post
And why do you think that is? Do you think that will still be the case this season now Murray's FH is improved?
I think it is still the case, yes. Murray doesn't dictate and construct points, Ferrer does. Murray either attack or either defend. He doesnt build the point like claycourters do. Murray's forehand attack are good, his rally forehands aren't.
Surcouf is offline  
post #26 of 129 (permalink) Old 04-03-2013, 10:56 AM
Registered User
 
Nixer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Moscow, Russia
Age: 29
Posts: 2,695
                     
Re: Who are the Clay court specialists?

Why the hell is everyone comparing different players? The idea of a court specialist is to compare his results on one surface with his results on all other surfaces - it's just 1 player.
Nixer is offline  
post #27 of 129 (permalink) Old 04-03-2013, 10:56 AM
Registered User
 
Mark Lenders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
Posts: 17,238
                     
Re: Who are the Clay court specialists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surcouf View Post
Ferrer would have reached the SF in 2005 if he did not run into Nadal. Remmeber how far did Del Potro go when he run into Nadal at RG?

I admit that Ferrer has had a RG problem, where all the good play he had done during the clay season did not materialize in RG. But for the surface in general, he is much better than Berdych and Del Potro. And I am sure you did not forget that decisive Davis Cup match on clay.
What? If he was in Federer's quarter instead of Nadal, he'd have lost. Hardly likely he'd beat Puerta or Davydenko either. Del Potro only played Nadal at RG once when he was 18yo, still put up a much better fight than Ferrer, not that that is saying much.

You have to be kidding, Del Potro was a few points away from being a Roland Garros champion; well not really, but he'd have been the clear favorite for the final against Soderling had he managed to put away Federer. He's far more threatening to all of Federer, Nadal and Djokovic than Ferrer. Berdych, I concede, is almost as non-threatening to Djokovic and Nadal as Ferrer on clay, but infinitely more threatening to Federer.

MTF games titles:

Suicide Tennis (5): Wimbledon 2014, World Tour Finals 2015, Madrid 2015, Kuala Lumpur 2014 and Metz 2015 - 1 Slam, 1 WTF, 1 Masters 1000, 2 ATP 250; 2 finals lost

Fill-in-the-Draw (3): US Open 2014, Rotterdam 2013 and Geneva 2015 - 1 Slam, 1 ATP 500 and 1 ATP 250

Tennis Tipping (3): Veneza and Todi 2014 (with vn01), Knoxville 2015 (with Redkop) - 3 challengers; 7 finals lost
Mark Lenders is offline  
post #28 of 129 (permalink) Old 04-03-2013, 11:00 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 994
                     
Re: Who are the Clay court specialists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
What? If he was in Federer's quarter instead of Nadal, he'd have lost. Hardly likely he'd beat Puerta or Davydenko either. Del Potro only played Nadal at RG once when he was 18yo, still put up a much better fight than Ferrer.

You have to be kidding, Del Potro was a few points away from being a Roland Garros champion; well not really, but he'd have the clear favorite for the final against Soderling had he managed to put away Federer. He's far more threatening to all of Federer, Nadal and Djokovic than Ferrer. Berdych, I concede, is as non-threatening to Djokovic and Nadal as Ferrer on clay, but infinitely more threatening to Federer.
Del Potro and Berdych are definitely more threatening to Federer than Ferrer is, but that's all. On clay Ferrer remains a bigger threat than both of them to Djokovic. None of the three are a credible threat to Nadal on clay.

Bottom line is that Ferrer is doing much better clay seasons and is beating Berdych and Del Potro on clay more often than not. And that's how you judge who is better than who, analysing the wholes results and looking at the H2H.

Who is better on clay doesn't equal to who is more a threat to Federer on clay.
Surcouf is offline  
post #29 of 129 (permalink) Old 04-03-2013, 11:01 AM
Banned!
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,616
                     
Re: Who are the Clay court specialists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surcouf View Post
Ferrer would have reached the SF in 2005 if he did not run into Nadal. Remmeber how far did Del Potro go when he run into Nadal at RG?

I admit that Ferrer has had a RG problem, where all the good play he had done during the clay season did not materialize in RG. But for the surface in general, he is much better than Berdych and Del Potro. And I am sure you did not forget that decisive Davis Cup match on clay.
Berdych and Del Potro pushing Nadal, Federer, Djokovic to the limits on clay. Nadal agaisnt Berdych had played his best clay match for many years last year at Rome. On other hand Ferrer took 5 games at RG s\f. Feel the difference.
Newcomer is offline  
post #30 of 129 (permalink) Old 04-03-2013, 11:03 AM
Registered User
 
Mark Lenders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
Posts: 17,238
                     
Re: Who are the Clay court specialists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surcouf View Post
Del Potro and Berdych are definitely more threatening to Federer than Ferrer is, but that's all. On clay Ferrer remains a bigger threat than both of them to Djokovic. None of the three being a credible threat to Nadal on clay.

Bottom line is that Ferrer is doing much better clay seasons and is beating Berdych and Del Potro on clay more often than not. And that's how you judge who is better than who, analysing the wholes results and looking at the H2H.

Who is better on clay doesn't equal to who is more a threat to Federer on clay.
Wait, you think Ferrer is a bigger threat to Djokovic on any surface than Del Potro ? I'm sure Djokovic and his fans are praying he draws Delpo instead of Ferrer

As for Nadal, just youtube 'Davis Cup Final 2011 Nadal vs Del Potro' and then compare what you see to Ferrer's constant bendovers.

MTF games titles:

Suicide Tennis (5): Wimbledon 2014, World Tour Finals 2015, Madrid 2015, Kuala Lumpur 2014 and Metz 2015 - 1 Slam, 1 WTF, 1 Masters 1000, 2 ATP 250; 2 finals lost

Fill-in-the-Draw (3): US Open 2014, Rotterdam 2013 and Geneva 2015 - 1 Slam, 1 ATP 500 and 1 ATP 250

Tennis Tipping (3): Veneza and Todi 2014 (with vn01), Knoxville 2015 (with Redkop) - 3 challengers; 7 finals lost
Mark Lenders is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the MensTennisForums.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome