Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof. Wada IC report published) - Page 173 - MensTennisForums.com
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post #2581 of 5004 (permalink) Old 03-17-2014, 11:45 PM
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Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof. Wada could test using hair

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Originally Posted by SheepleBuster View Post
The truth can come out faster if we throw a Kickstarter campaign together to raise 50M for a top 4 player to write a book admitting to it. I am sure that makes a huge difference and would be money well spent
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I honestly don't think Brown has much of a chance at all, think he might get a set at best though.
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post #2582 of 5004 (permalink) Old 03-19-2014, 09:01 AM
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Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof. Wada could test using hair

New sports doping test '1,000 times more sensitive'
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-26636371

US researchers have developed a new way to detect performance-enhancing drugs that they say is 1,000 times more sensitive than current tests.

In the laboratory, the new screen detected stimulants and steroids in minute concentrations.

The method is inexpensive and works with existing equipment, the scientists claim.

If validated, the test would significantly extend the time in which cheating athletes could be caught.

The research has been presented at a meeting of the American Chemical Society (ACS).

Most testing for doping products uses a long-established technique called mass spectrometry.

This involves zapping urine samples with a beam of electrons that turns the atoms into charged particles.

These particles then travel through the spectrometer where they are weighed by a magnetic field.

As the scientists already know the weight of many steroids, for example, they are able to rapidly and accurately detect doping. But there are difficulties with this system.

Some byproducts of doping substances are so small and have a negative electrical charge that they may not produce a strong enough signal for detection.

Now chemists at the University of Texas in Arlington believe they have developed a method that builds on existing mass spectrometry techniques to detect these extremely small metabolites.

Called Paired Ion Electrospray Ionisation (PIESI), the system uses a chemical agent to bind to the minute pieces of steroid or amphetamine and make them more visible to the detector.

"It makes them much more detectable," Dr Daniel Armstrong, who led the research team, told BBC News.

"We're talking about parts per trillion, sub-parts per trillion - and the amazing thing is that it is so simple."

In laboratory tests, the system was able to detect steroids, stimulants, alcohol and depressants.

"We listed our sensitivity versus everything we found in the literature thus far, and that's where we got this 10-1,000 times more sensitive than anything else recorded, depending on the drug you are talking about," said Dr Armstrong.

As the key binding agent is commercially available, it should be relatively inexpensive to adapt existing detection methods, the researcher said. A variation of the method is already being used to detect minute amounts of industrial contaminants.

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The new detection method would radically alter the detection window in which an athlete could be caught after taking these drugs.

This is a critical issue in the fight against doping. A detailed knowledge of the length of time a substance is detectable has been used by many cheating athletes and their scientific advisers to avoid being caught.

"With steroids, it's about two orders of magnitude, about 100 times more sensitive. We may be able to detect a steroid or something that's long-lived a couple of years after it was taken," said Dr Armstrong.

The new method wouldn't work for blood doping, nor would it detect human growth hormone, said the researchers.

The scientists will be submitting their work for peer review after the American Chemical Society meeting in Dallas.

While they have had many enquiries from reporters, so far they've had none from the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA), the US anti-doping agency (USADA), or the International Olympic Committee (IOC).

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post #2583 of 5004 (permalink) Old 03-19-2014, 12:27 PM
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Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof. Wada could test using hair

Better watch out

Eufemiano Fuentes

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I honestly don't think Brown has much of a chance at all, think he might get a set at best though.
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post #2584 of 5004 (permalink) Old 03-19-2014, 12:34 PM
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Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof. Wada could test using hair

^Thanks for posting.

Hopefully an increase in methods such as these for detecting when the body has been artificially and illegally enhanced to perform better will continue. It's good news for those organizations that are serious about testing and catching everyone.

The others will either require years of research to see if it is cost effective and worth implementing, or will claim to use it to give the appearance they are serious, but when implementing it, they will perform the usual intermittent roundup of athletes that don't greatly influence the sport's revenue, in the name of silently "protecting the sport". In other words, business as usual.

Until there are fundamental changes in the process, such as not allowing the individual sports organizations to conduct their own anti-doping program, which is, no matter what they would say, a built-in conflict of interest, and replacing them with international independent anti-doping units that have access to governmental investigative powers, I don't believe much will change.

USADA and Armstrong proved what many on the inside were already aware; that PED use is rampant all the way to the top echelon of athletes in sports when the risk of being caught is not great, compared to the reward of success, and where competition is such that the edge gained in strength, endurance, training, etc. is sufficient to rise above the others at a similar level.

To successfully combat PED use in sport, the deterrent must be such that the risk of being caught is greater than the reward. But without the global will to provide that level of deterrent, the effort will be mostly futile, and the results, delusive at best. My eternal hope is that the global will to do so will eventually be realized; my sad expectation is that it will not during my lifetime.

Respectfully,
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post #2585 of 5004 (permalink) Old 03-19-2014, 12:42 PM
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Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof. Wada could test using hair

Great news for tennis

Some "great champions" will piss their pants if this is implemented.
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post #2586 of 5004 (permalink) Old 03-19-2014, 12:46 PM
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Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof. Wada could test using hair

I'm a big fan of keeping samples for future testing, once methods have improved, or better intelligence means retrospectively testing for things not previously known to be a problem. It's got to make potential cheaters think twice about putting their faith in a doping doctor who assures them they'll never get caught.

My only concern, from a legal as well as moral point of view, is to be sure that they are distinguishing between catching people who were definitely doping using advanced techniques, and there is no risk of false positives because a person absorbed a minute dose of a minor contaminant in a supposedly clean supplement, or it's a metabolite of a legitimately prescribed medication, that may have tested as suitable in a lab that couldn't test to the new, lower detection limits. I'm not sure how plausible these scenarios are, especially if they take sensible precautions.

I'd argue that the key is to have more samples stored for longer. It should be a mix of those of the winners, but also random others in any given tournament.
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post #2587 of 5004 (permalink) Old 03-19-2014, 04:40 PM
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Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof. Wada could test using hair

"The new method wouldn't work for blood doping, nor would it detect human growth hormone, said the researchers".

and everyone breathes a huge sigh of relief....
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post #2588 of 5004 (permalink) Old 03-19-2014, 06:17 PM
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Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof. Wada could test using hair

The ITF delayed the testing for EPO, Cera, and the biological passport, long after cycling was testing for these. They will delay the use of these newer tests just long enough so that some of their "heroes" retire, or at least adjust their doping regime.

The ITF WILL NOT test old samples, because they KNOW some high ranked players WILL be caught. They then can continue the lie that tennis is clean, because there are few positive tests.
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post #2589 of 5004 (permalink) Old 03-19-2014, 06:36 PM
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Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof. Wada could test using hair

Does the ATP test for EPO?
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post #2590 of 5004 (permalink) Old 03-20-2014, 12:07 AM
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Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof. Wada could test using hair

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Does the ATP test for EPO?

The ITF does all testing for the men's and women's tour.

I believe that they do a little testing for EPO, but the player's have long moved on to new substances that are not tested for. The ITF is purposefully slow to adopt tests for new substances, knowing that the old tests won't catch what is currently being used.

If you want an education about what is really going on, I suggest that you spend some time perusing "the clinic cycling". MTF is an active part of the Omerta in tennis. You won't get any useful information here, only censorship, and denial by useful idiots.
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post #2591 of 5004 (permalink) Old 03-20-2014, 12:48 AM
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Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof. Wada could test using hair

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The ITF does all testing for the men's and women's tour.

I believe that they do a little testing for EPO, but the player's have long moved on to new substances that are not tested for. The ITF is purposefully slow to adopt tests for new substances, knowing that the old tests won't catch what is currently being used.

If you want an education about what is really going on, I suggest that you spend some time perusing "the clinic cycling". MTF is an active part of the Omerta in tennis. You won't get any useful information here, only censorship, and denial by useful idiots.
That makes sense. If someone gets caught with the crappy test then its obviously not going to be a top star who can afford designer performance enhancing drugs, its going to be the unranked guy whose screwing around with some form of testosterone.

Even if a top guy was some how caught I doubt they would tarnish the image of the sport by releasing the results.
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post #2592 of 5004 (permalink) Old 03-20-2014, 03:23 AM
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Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof. Wada could test using hair

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My only concern, from a legal as well as moral point of view, is to be sure that they are distinguishing between catching people who were definitely doping using advanced techniques, and there is no risk of false positives.....
Unfortunately, that's going to be very unlikely. We're no longer in a doping era where the substances announce themselves with the chemical equivalent of a 50-foot neon sign. It's all much more subtle, and the physiological values are better managed by the "nutrition specialists". Look how long it took to catch Lance Armstrong after all, and he wasn't even using anything particularly sophisticated.

It's another reason to have contempt for the cheats - they contribute to a scenario where false positives are inevitable.
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post #2593 of 5004 (permalink) Old 03-20-2014, 07:49 AM
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Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof. Wada could test using hair

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Great news for tennis

Some "great champions" will piss their pants if this is implemented.
Yes. Let's hope every cheater is caught from the low ranked players to the top players.

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post #2594 of 5004 (permalink) Old 03-20-2014, 07:53 AM
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Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof. Wada could test using hair

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Originally Posted by AndyNonomous View Post
The ITF does all testing for the men's and women's tour.

I believe that they do a little testing for EPO, but the player's have long moved on to new substances that are not tested for. The ITF is purposefully slow to adopt tests for new substances, knowing that the old tests won't catch what is currently being used.
ITF do all of the testing on behalf of the men and women's tour. They don't do all of the testing of tennis players, because individual countries have their own testing regimes, and tests are carried out by IOC etc. Around about the Olympics especially it would be very dangerous for a doper to rely on the laziness of the ITF system.
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post #2595 of 5004 (permalink) Old 03-20-2014, 08:07 AM
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Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof. Wada could test using hair

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Originally Posted by Sunflowerseed View Post
ITF do all of the testing on behalf of the men and women's tour. They don't do all of the testing of tennis players, because individual countries have their own testing regimes, and tests are carried out by IOC etc. Around about the Olympics especially it would be very dangerous for a doper to rely on the laziness of the ITF system.
If they (IOC) are retesting samples from 2008 Olympics, I fear that some realy big big stars will fall
They did it with 2006 samples and the rumour says that they have caught some relative big winter sport names (Kristina Smigun).
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