Okay, Delpo can win another GS, right? - Page 8 - MensTennisForums.com
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #106 of 114 (permalink) Old 02-10-2013, 07:18 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,221
                     
Re: Okay, Delpo can win another GS, right?

Ignoring Masters is just cherrypicking to make him look like he had a less inconsistent year than he actually did.
Caesar1844 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #107 of 114 (permalink) Old 02-10-2013, 07:24 AM
Registered User
 
Mark Lenders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
Posts: 16,623
                     
Re: Okay, Delpo can win another GS, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caesar1844 View Post
Ignoring Masters is just cherrypicking to make him look like he had a less inconsistent year than he actually did.
Ok, I'll bite . He played 8 Masters in 2009, reached QF 3 times, SF twice and F once. That's 6/8 Masters where he either lived up or surpassed his seeding. He was definitely not as good as at Slams relative to his closest competitors, but he was consistent, he was definitely not stinking it up at the Masters level.

Face it, you have no case. He was the second best player in the biggest events by a distance, and consistent at Masters level too (#5). You should maybe focus on attacking his performance on 250s/500s, he was actually quite inconsistent in those in 2009

MTF games titles:

Suicide Tennis (5): Wimbledon 2014, World Tour Finals 2015, Madrid 2015, Kuala Lumpur 2014 and Metz 2015 - 1 Slam, 1 WTF, 1 Masters 1000, 2 ATP 250; 2 finals lost

Fill-in-the-Draw (3): US Open 2014, Rotterdam 2013 and Geneva 2015 - 1 Slam, 1 ATP 500 and 1 ATP 250

Tennis Tipping (3): Veneza and Todi 2014 (with vn01), Knoxville 2015 (with Redkop) - 3 challengers; 7 finals lost
Mark Lenders is offline  
post #108 of 114 (permalink) Old 02-10-2013, 07:28 AM
Registered User
 
Hewitt =Legend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Portugal (at heart)
Posts: 10,504
                     
Re: Okay, Delpo can win another GS, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
Why do people insist on this myth? He played one truly great match the whole fortnight, against Nadal in the semis. Apart from that, he lost a set to Kohlerer and needed quite a bit help from Cilic to make it to the semis. As for the final, both Federer and Del Potro served very poorly. Yes, he made a lot of incredible forehand winners but that's hardly something exclusive to that match/tournament; he actually played better in some of the tight matches he lost vs Federer over the years, like RG 2009 and Olympics last year.

JMDP was the second best player in the five big events of 2009 (Slams + WTF) even if we ignore USO 2009, his title did not come out of the blue, he was consistently performing better than everyone apart from Federer at the big events.
That match against Koellerer was actually high quality stuff and one of the most entertaining matches of the tournament. And he ended up dismantling Cilic quite convincingly in the end, I think the last three sets were like 3,2,1 or something and he played at a high standard even though Cilic folded pretty meekly. Destroys Nadal in the semis and then beats Federer in the final.

I'm sorry, but I call beating Nadal and Federer back2back catching fire even if he didn't play at his peak all the way through (your words).

And to answer the thread question again, I think it is extremely unlikely he can win one in the forseeable future unless he can improve the points I made in my aforementioned post. To many flaws in his game... (yes, they were there before the wrist surgery as well)

Life is an orange and you're just a little pip.

Ol' Rusty Hewitt - Keeping me moist since 1998.

B-Nard4Lyfe.

BoGaNtiLIdiE.
Hewitt =Legend is offline  
post #109 of 114 (permalink) Old 02-10-2013, 07:35 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,221
                     
Re: Okay, Delpo can win another GS, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
Ok, I'll bite . He played 8 Masters in 2009, reached QF 3 times, SF twice and F once. That's 6/8 Masters where he either lived up or surpassed his seeding. He was definitely not as good as at Slams relative to his closest competitors, but he was consistent, he was definitely not stinking it up at the Masters level.

Face it, you have no case. He was the second best player in the biggest events by a distance, and consistent at Masters level too (#5). You should maybe focus on attacking his performance on 250s/500s, he was actually quite inconsistent in those in 2009
Thanks for proving my point. His overall results in big events show him as a regular top 10 player having a good year. Not a serious slam contender until he got red hot at the USO.

Have always said Del Spudtro is a legit top 10 player when at his best. That doesn't really mean he has what it takes to run with the big boys. His USO run was an aberration.
Caesar1844 is offline  
post #110 of 114 (permalink) Old 02-10-2013, 09:26 AM
Registered User
 
Sombrerero loco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Age: 26
Posts: 60,661
                     
Re: Okay, Delpo can win another GS, right?

this board is hilarious. compare just murray´s achievements to delpo´s. no words
more slam finals, many more MS titles, 2 olimpic medals over 0, best high career ranking....well just there is no comparison between those 2

Henri KONTINEN

Jaume Pla Malfeito/Bernard the aTomic /Thanasi Kokkinakis/Tomas Pusic Whitmore

John Millman /Marcus Willis/Taro Daniel-Alex de Miñaur-Josh Milton


Henkka Kontinen
-Nick Kyrgios-Pierre Hugues Herbert-Alex Bolt-Javier Martí-Evan Hoyt-Brydan Klein-Chris Rungkat-Andres Artuñedo-Hugo Nys-Pol Toledo
www.tennisalternative.com
Sombrerero loco is offline  
post #111 of 114 (permalink) Old 02-10-2013, 02:33 PM
Registered User
 
BauerAlmeida's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Argentina
Age: 23
Posts: 5,307
                     
Re: Okay, Delpo can win another GS, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sombrerero loco View Post
this board is hilarious. compare just murray´s achievements to delpo´s. no words
more slam finals, many more MS titles, 2 olimpic medals over 0, best high career ranking....well just there is no comparison between those 2
Did someone said DP's achievements were better?? No. The comparison was who had/has a better peak game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Groove View Post
Fuck you. This ain't no God damn hobby, motherfucker.
BauerAlmeida is online now  
post #112 of 114 (permalink) Old 02-10-2013, 02:36 PM
Registered User
 
Hewitt =Legend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Portugal (at heart)
Posts: 10,504
                     
Re: Okay, Delpo can win another GS, right?

Comparing peak games is pretty meaningless in the end when one player reaches it far more consistently than the other.

Life is an orange and you're just a little pip.

Ol' Rusty Hewitt - Keeping me moist since 1998.

B-Nard4Lyfe.

BoGaNtiLIdiE.
Hewitt =Legend is offline  
post #113 of 114 (permalink) Old 02-10-2013, 03:09 PM
Registered User
 
Burrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,052
                     
Re: Okay, Delpo can win another GS, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BauerAlmeida View Post
Murray is a bad match up for Del Potro, but if we are comparing peak vs peak, that is irrelevant. And still, despite being a bad match up there matches haven't been very one-sided.

In Rome 2008 JMDP was outside the top 50 and was a shadow of the player he would become and still the match was close untill he retired.

USO 2008 was after Delpo's breakthrough that was in the autumn of 2008 when he won 4 titles in a row (altgough he still wasn't at his peak). The match was very close 7-6, 7-6, 4-6, 7-5. JMDP served for the 1st set and was a break up in the 2nd set or the 4th one, can't remember which one.

Miami the same year was a pretty comfortable much for Murray.

In Madrid Del Potro won.

In Montreal it was very close untill DP fell apart in the 3rd. He almost wins that match though.

The WTF match wasn't easy but not so hard either.

It Murray's peak is really that superior, their matches should have been won much more comfortably by Murray considering he is a bad match up for JMDP. I think peak vs peak it's close, if they face each other at the USO Murray would be the favorite, but not by a big margin given how close the match they played there was.
I don't believe it is irrelevant. Del Potro's optimum performance level would vary from opponent to opponent. It's just lazy analysis to conclude that "it doesn't matter, it's peak vs. peak". I've already stated why. Tennis simply doesn't work like that.

You can run through all of the matches, but all that is supports is my argument.

Despite however much Del Potro is the type of player to dictate matches and their outcome, I can't help but think that it's the other way around when he faces Murray, because Murray possesses all of the necessary attributes to counter as well as neutralise Del Potro's strengths.
Burrow is offline  
post #114 of 114 (permalink) Old 02-10-2013, 04:29 PM
Registered User
 
Mark Lenders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
Posts: 16,623
                     
Re: Okay, Delpo can win another GS, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hewitt =Legend View Post
That match against Koellerer was actually high quality stuff and one of the most entertaining matches of the tournament. And he ended up dismantling Cilic quite convincingly in the end, I think the last three sets were like 3,2,1 or something and he played at a high standard even though Cilic folded pretty meekly. Destroys Nadal in the semis and then beats Federer in the final.

I'm sorry, but I call beating Nadal and Federer back2back catching fire even if he didn't play at his peak all the way through (your words).

And to answer the thread question again, I think it is extremely unlikely he can win one in the forseeable future unless he can improve the points I made in my aforementioned post. To many flaws in his game... (yes, they were there before the wrist surgery as well)
I agree that the match vs Koelerer was very entertaining He did end up routining Marin in the end, but things would have been quite tough if Cilic was mentally tougher and hadn't imploded, he was a set and a break up and frankly dominating most exchanges. Cilic most definitely let Del Potro back into the match like he did Murray last year at the same stage.

I don't call it catching fire because his overall record against those two in 2009 was 5-4 (3-1 vs Rafa, 2-3 vs Federer) and he had won his two previous matches vs Rafa before USO. It's not like he only beat them in that tournament and it came totally out of the blue. I remember a lot of people at the time expected him to beat Murray and Nadal to reach the final - very few though (myself not included) expected him to actually beat Federer in his first Slam final. If he won, say, RG this year in June I'd agree that he'd have to catch fire and perform way above his level since at the moment he's not at the level of the top guys (or close) and hasn't been since coming back from surgery; in 2009 though, he was.

And I agree that he always had flaws in his game, namely concerning his movement and fitness (and dealing with slices). Lack of plan B isn't really one though imo. I mean, it's not like the players at the top of the game bar Federer are known for employing a variety of strategies to throw their opponents off, they are just better at the key attributes rewarded in this era of tennis: movement, fitness, defense... I do agree that JMDP needs to improve on a few aspects to be a stronger contender. And yes, the weaknesses were there before the injury, but he could keep even the top players at bay with his power and avoid getting those weaknesses fully exposed; surgery forced him to pretty much start from scratch. I'm sure you know how tough it is to return from a major surgery being a Hewitt fan (not that I'm comparing the two, Hewitt definitely had it much tougher with injuries overall).

MTF games titles:

Suicide Tennis (5): Wimbledon 2014, World Tour Finals 2015, Madrid 2015, Kuala Lumpur 2014 and Metz 2015 - 1 Slam, 1 WTF, 1 Masters 1000, 2 ATP 250; 2 finals lost

Fill-in-the-Draw (3): US Open 2014, Rotterdam 2013 and Geneva 2015 - 1 Slam, 1 ATP 500 and 1 ATP 250

Tennis Tipping (3): Veneza and Todi 2014 (with vn01), Knoxville 2015 (with Redkop) - 3 challengers; 7 finals lost
Mark Lenders is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the MensTennisForums.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome