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post #46 of 114 (permalink) Old 02-09-2013, 08:11 PM
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Re: Okay, Delpo can win another GS, right?

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Originally Posted by Federer-Fan View Post
Murray at his peak (Shanghai 2010, Olympics 2012) would beat easily the better Del Potro (US Open 2009), something like 6-2 6-3...
You watched him play that tournament?? He beat Nadal 2-2-2.

If he plays like that against Murray he has a strong chance of winning. Both at their peak in a HC would be a close match.

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post #47 of 114 (permalink) Old 02-09-2013, 10:08 PM
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Re: Okay, Delpo can win another GS, right?

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You watched him play that tournament?? He beat Nadal 2-2-2.

If he plays like that against Murray he has a strong chance of winning. Both at their peak in a HC would be a close match.
You can't say that "if he plays like that", Murray is a rather different player from Nadal and the dynamics of the match would be very different.
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post #48 of 114 (permalink) Old 02-09-2013, 10:16 PM
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Re: Okay, Delpo can win another GS, right?

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You can't say that "if he plays like that", Murray is a rather different player from Nadal and the dynamics of the match would be very different.
Well, Murray and Del Potro played at the USO 2008. It was a close match, I don't know how it would go from that to 6-2 6-3 given that Del Potro evolved a lot from that tournament to USO 2009.

I know that it's different facing 2 different players, but if he was playing at a level that he demolished someone like Nadal he certainly could beat Murray. They're different players, true, but it's not like we are comparing facing Isner and facing Ferrer that have a totally different game.

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post #49 of 114 (permalink) Old 02-09-2013, 11:02 PM
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Re: Okay, Delpo can win another GS, right?

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Well, Murray and Del Potro played at the USO 2008. It was a close match, I don't know how it would go from that to 6-2 6-3 given that Del Potro evolved a lot from that tournament to USO 2009.

I know that it's different facing 2 different players, but if he was playing at a level that he demolished someone like Nadal he certainly could beat Murray. They're different players, true, but it's not like we are comparing facing Isner and facing Ferrer that have a totally different game.
Murray always looks in control when the two face. Murray is just about as bad a match for Del Potro than anyone, considering he is an excellent mover who can slice defensively and offensively and has good attacking attributes in his serve and potentially his backhand. In other words, he can force Del Potro to make the error more than other players, as well as take time away from the poor movement of Del Potro.

On a perfect day, Murray would be lackadasical off the forehand and passive, whilst serving 50%, giving Del Potro the initiative. Realistically, Murray would force Del Potro to play out of his skin. Serving well, moving and anticipating well, timing the ball exceptionally well from different heights and maintaining concentration throughout. Nadal was below par, on a court he doesn't necessarily like, after having suffered a long injury lay-off. What Nadal did that day was serve poorly, as you'd expect, leave too many mid-court balls and produce more errors than you'd expect from him in normal circumstances. Nadal was void of confidence and Del Potro was the complete opposite.

You just cannot compare. The fact Murray knows he has Del Potro's number and Vice Versa doesn't hold well either.

I certainly would say Del Potro's win at the US Open was more impressive than Murray's considering he relied on an absolutely enormous choke from Cilic and ridiculously windy conditions and still being pushed by a poor wind player like Berdych and then a hindered Djokovic. That doesn't mean to say there was an element of luck in Del Potro's win, but less so and not a particularly alarming amount.
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post #50 of 114 (permalink) Old 02-09-2013, 11:04 PM
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Re: Okay, Delpo can win another GS, right?

Murray is streets ahead of Potro. Why is this even being discussed?

Will Potro win another slam? Possibly, not in the next couple of years though.

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post #51 of 114 (permalink) Old 02-09-2013, 11:08 PM
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Re: Okay, Delpo can win another GS, right?

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That hapless wrist injury took him off guard for a good year and a half, and it couldn't have come at a worst time. Surely Delpo can triumph and snatch another GS? I mean, I hope he can.
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post #52 of 114 (permalink) Old 02-09-2013, 11:09 PM
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Re: Okay, Delpo can win another GS, right?

Be very tough for him due to the physical nature of this era- he basically has to blitz guys in the early rounds. He doesn't handle heat well either. Of course if he got a decent draw into a SF with little energy consumed he'd have a slight chance.

RG with Nadal's issues, Federer's decline and Murray's lack of threat there might be his best bet.

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post #53 of 114 (permalink) Old 02-09-2013, 11:12 PM
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Re: Okay, Delpo can win another GS, right?

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Murray is streets ahead of Potro. Why is this even being discussed?

Will Potro win another slam? Possibly, not in the next couple of years though.
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but del potro is so fucking overhyped on this board and murray has too many haters, thats all

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post #54 of 114 (permalink) Old 02-09-2013, 11:18 PM
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Re: Okay, Delpo can win another GS, right?

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Well, that's the thing. He jumped back into the top ten - in what felt like - no time whatsoever. There's just so much agile competition now. Surely, at his young age of 24, a few more GS's are possible. Hopefully his peak is still ahead of him.
That's because surgery or no surgery he's too good for most of the field - basically anyone below the top 8 at the moment - and mentally tough enough to overcome such huge adversity. The challenge is now that he's secured a top 8 seeding he needs to make inroads at Slams.

He needs to schedule smartly first and foremost; one of his main regrets in 2012 is that he was injured for 3 of the 4 Slams (knee in RG and W, left wrist at USO), he needs to do his best to avoid that, schedule lightly and try to be at peak fitness/health for Slams to increase his chances. His body just can't sustain consistent top level tennis without breaking down, he needs to prioritize for now. For starters, he should take a leaf out of Murray's book and take it easy in Indian Wells and Miami; the surfaces of those two tournaments seem like they were built to get players joint injuries. If he gets out of those two tournaments in one piece, he should have a good clay season leading to RG, where he can beat anyone.

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post #55 of 114 (permalink) Old 02-09-2013, 11:18 PM
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Re: Okay, Delpo can win another GS, right?

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Be very tough for him due to the physical nature of this era- he basically has to blitz guys in the early rounds. He doesn't handle heat well either. Of course if he got a decent draw into a SF with little energy consumed he'd have a slight chance.

RG with Nadal's issues, Federer's decline and Murray's lack of threat there might be his best bet.
is Novak skipping French Open this year?
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post #56 of 114 (permalink) Old 02-09-2013, 11:21 PM
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Re: Okay, Delpo can win another GS, right?

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is Novak skipping French Open this year?
Not this year, I mean further down the line- Nole's an animal but I don't think he's Federer-like in that he will suddenly monopolise these events every year- other guys will get a look-in once in a while.

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post #57 of 114 (permalink) Old 02-09-2013, 11:29 PM
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Re: Okay, Delpo can win another GS, right?

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Be very tough for him due to the physical nature of this era- he basically has to blitz guys in the early rounds. He doesn't handle heat well either. Of course if he got a decent draw into a SF with little energy consumed he'd have a slight chance.

RG with Nadal's issues, Federer's decline and Murray's lack of threat there might be his best bet.
Also stats show that it's easier to hit winner at RG than on the slow hardcourts of Australia and US, by quite a significant margin actually. Del Potro has a much better chance to hit through the defenses of guys like Murray and Djokovic at RG than at USO/AO.

As for Wimbledon, I look forward to see if his Olympic form was a 'fluke' inspired by playing for Argentina or actual improvement on grass. If he can play and move like that on grass on a regular basis, he could have a chance somewhere down the line.

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post #58 of 114 (permalink) Old 02-09-2013, 11:38 PM
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Re: Okay, Delpo can win another GS, right?

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Originally Posted by Burrow View Post
Murray always looks in control when the two face. Murray is just about as bad a match for Del Potro than anyone, considering he is an excellent mover who can slice defensively and offensively and has good attacking attributes in his serve and potentially his backhand. In other words, he can force Del Potro to make the error more than other players, as well as take time away from the poor movement of Del Potro.

On a perfect day, Murray would be lackadasical off the forehand and passive, whilst serving 50%, giving Del Potro the initiative. Realistically, Murray would force Del Potro to play out of his skin. Serving well, moving and anticipating well, timing the ball exceptionally well from different heights and maintaining concentration throughout. Nadal was below par, on a court he doesn't necessarily like, after having suffered a long injury lay-off. What Nadal did that day was serve poorly, as you'd expect, leave too many mid-court balls and produce more errors than you'd expect from him in normal circumstances. Nadal was void of confidence and Del Potro was the complete opposite.

You just cannot compare. The fact Murray knows he has Del Potro's number and Vice Versa doesn't hold well either.

I certainly would say Del Potro's win at the US Open was more impressive than Murray's considering he relied on an absolutely enormous choke from Cilic and ridiculously windy conditions and still being pushed by a poor wind player like Berdych and then a hindered Djokovic. That doesn't mean to say there was an element of luck in Del Potro's win, but less so and not a particularly alarming amount.

Murray is a bad match up for Del Potro, but if we are comparing peak vs peak, that is irrelevant. And still, despite being a bad match up there matches haven't been very one-sided.

In Rome 2008 JMDP was outside the top 50 and was a shadow of the player he would become and still the match was close untill he retired.

USO 2008 was after Delpo's breakthrough that was in the autumn of 2008 when he won 4 titles in a row (altgough he still wasn't at his peak). The match was very close 7-6, 7-6, 4-6, 7-5. JMDP served for the 1st set and was a break up in the 2nd set or the 4th one, can't remember which one.

Miami the same year was a pretty comfortable much for Murray.

In Madrid Del Potro won.

In Montreal it was very close untill DP fell apart in the 3rd. He almost wins that match though.

The WTF match wasn't easy but not so hard either.

It Murray's peak is really that superior, their matches should have been won much more comfortably by Murray considering he is a bad match up for JMDP. I think peak vs peak it's close, if they face each other at the USO Murray would be the favorite, but not by a big margin given how close the match they played there was.

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post #59 of 114 (permalink) Old 02-09-2013, 11:43 PM
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Re: Okay, Delpo can win another GS, right?

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Murray is a bad match up for Del Potro, but if we are comparing peak vs peak, that is irrelevant. And still, despite being a bad match up there matches haven't been very one-sided.

In Rome 2008 JMDP was outside the top 50 and was a shadow of the player he would become and still the match was close untill he retired.

USO 2008 was after Delpo's breakthrough that was in the autumn of 2008 when he won 4 titles in a row (altgough he still wasn't at his peak). The match was very close 7-6, 7-6, 4-6, 7-5. JMDP served for the 1st set and was a break up in the 2nd set or the 4th one, can't remember which one.

Miami the same year was a pretty comfortable much for Murray.

In Madrid Del Potro won.

In Montreal it was very close untill DP fell apart in the 3rd. He almost wins that match though.

The WTF match wasn't easy but not so hard either.

It Murray's peak is really that superior, their matches should have been won much more comfortably by Murray considering he is a bad match up for JMDP. I think peak vs peak it's close, if they face each other at the USO Murray would be the favorite, but not by a big margin given how close the match they played there was.
Fourth set. It was Del Choketro in that one, failed to serve out the first set and then completely collapsed after going a break up in the fourth. He had just broken through that fall and didn't have enough experience in big matches, that's why he wilted under pressure. Murray was slicing every third backhand, made for a very ugly match actually.

As for this peak vs peak comparison, peak attack > peak defense. It's a non issue since they're hardly likely to face while both are their peak, how often does a player play his very best tennis? Not too often. On an average, you have to favor Murray to outgrind/defend JMDP into oblivion.

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post #60 of 114 (permalink) Old 02-09-2013, 11:48 PM
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Re: Okay, Delpo can win another GS, right?

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I fixed it for you.No need tl thank me.
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Delpo is much more talented than that OBE bloke.Delpo has a forehand.Delpo is a gentleman on the court and can be a role model for little kiddies,unlike certain hooligan.Delpo has a chance to win at least one more Grand Slam.
A certain hooligan who's just sent his happy fan (me) an autograph in the mail... yeah massive hooligan this Murray.

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