Mario Ancic vs his age peers - Soderling, Tsonga and Berdych - in terms of potential - Page 3 - MensTennisForums.com

View Poll Results: What was Ancic's potential compared to his age peers - Soderling, Berdych and Tsonga?
He could have been better than them 14 30.43%
Roughly the same 13 28.26%
He was inferior to them 19 41.30%
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

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post #31 of 102 (permalink) Old 02-02-2013, 09:03 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Mario Ancic vs his age peers - Soderling, Tsonga and Berdych - in terms of potent

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Originally Posted by Wing Man Frank View Post
Wasn't generally accepted Ancic was better on grass? Hence the reason I mentioned.

Keep up Lenders.
Yeah, so? Djokovic wasn't exactly a random mug, but a very talented young player and future #1. Struggling against him does not mean he was not great on grass. I know Djokovic was 19, but he was already a great player, would have reached QF with an easier R4 opponent and did reach semis the following year.

Federer actually lost to 18yo Ancic on grass, does this mean he's not great on the surface? No, it means nothing.

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Suicide Tennis (5): Wimbledon 2014, World Tour Finals 2015, Madrid 2015, Kuala Lumpur 2014 and Metz 2015 - 1 Slam, 1 WTF, 1 Masters 1000, 2 ATP 250; 2 finals lost

Fill-in-the-Draw (3): US Open 2014, Rotterdam 2013 and Geneva 2015 - 1 Slam, 1 ATP 500 and 1 ATP 250

Tennis Tipping (3): Veneza and Todi 2014 (with vn01), Knoxville 2015 (with Redkop) - 3 challengers; 7 finals lost
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post #32 of 102 (permalink) Old 02-02-2013, 09:06 PM
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Re: Mario Ancic vs his age peers - Soderling, Tsonga and Berdych - in terms of potent

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Originally Posted by Wing Man Frank View Post
The Ancic I remember is the one that nearly got beat at Wimbledon by an 18 year old Djokovic.

Time makes fools of us. We allow ourselves to believe things were better than they really were.
He was 19 and had reached his first slam QF three weeks earlier. Do your research.

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post #33 of 102 (permalink) Old 02-02-2013, 09:27 PM
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Re: Mario Ancic vs his age peers - Soderling, Tsonga and Berdych - in terms of potent

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Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
Yeah, so? Djokovic wasn't exactly a random mug, but a very talented young player and future #1. Struggling against him does not mean he was not great on grass. I know Djokovic was 19, but he was already a great player, would have reached QF with an easier R4 opponent and did reach semis the following year.

Federer actually lost to 18yo Ancic on grass, does this mean he's not great on the surface? No, it means nothing.
Aside from all of that, Ancic was good, but not great. Bit like all the other mugs you worship (Tsonga, Del Potro, Berdych etc).

I think the question you really want to ask is:

Would he be Ferrer's bitch just like the other three are? The answer is yes.

Discussions like these are pointless. You are entrenched with your uneducated opinion and really want others to just suck up to you and agree.

Reality is we will never know how good he could have become. Speculating on it is pointless.
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post #34 of 102 (permalink) Old 02-02-2013, 09:37 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Mario Ancic vs his age peers - Soderling, Tsonga and Berdych - in terms of potent

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Originally Posted by Wing Man Frank View Post
Aside from all of that, Ancic was good, but not great. Bit like all the other mugs you worship (Tsonga, Del Potro, Berdych etc).

I think the question you really want to ask is:

Would he be Ferrer's bitch just like the other three are? The answer is yes.

Discussions like these are pointless. You are entrenched with your uneducated opinion and really want others to just suck up to you and agree.

Reality is we will never know how good he could have become. Speculating on it is pointless.


And this was already after his mono. Ferrer is owning him so hard he couldn't get a single break in 4 sets

And all those 'mugs' are far better than Ferrer. If you don't like speculation, you're in the wrong place. If all we had to talk about was how many Slams/tournaments player x won, we'd not need a forum, would we? There'd be nothing to debate.

MTF games titles:

Suicide Tennis (5): Wimbledon 2014, World Tour Finals 2015, Madrid 2015, Kuala Lumpur 2014 and Metz 2015 - 1 Slam, 1 WTF, 1 Masters 1000, 2 ATP 250; 2 finals lost

Fill-in-the-Draw (3): US Open 2014, Rotterdam 2013 and Geneva 2015 - 1 Slam, 1 ATP 500 and 1 ATP 250

Tennis Tipping (3): Veneza and Todi 2014 (with vn01), Knoxville 2015 (with Redkop) - 3 challengers; 7 finals lost
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post #35 of 102 (permalink) Old 02-02-2013, 09:44 PM
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Re: Mario Ancic vs his age peers - Soderling, Tsonga and Berdych - in terms of potent

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And all those 'mugs' are far better than Ferrer.


You need professional help.
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post #36 of 102 (permalink) Old 02-02-2013, 09:49 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Mario Ancic vs his age peers - Soderling, Tsonga and Berdych - in terms of potent

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You need professional help.
You need to ask your first grade Math teacher to teach you how to count. 1 Slam title > 0. 1 Slam final > 0. It's not that hard; you don't need to understand anything about tennis for this one, which makes it much easier for you, all you need is some basic first grade Math skills.

MTF games titles:

Suicide Tennis (5): Wimbledon 2014, World Tour Finals 2015, Madrid 2015, Kuala Lumpur 2014 and Metz 2015 - 1 Slam, 1 WTF, 1 Masters 1000, 2 ATP 250; 2 finals lost

Fill-in-the-Draw (3): US Open 2014, Rotterdam 2013 and Geneva 2015 - 1 Slam, 1 ATP 500 and 1 ATP 250

Tennis Tipping (3): Veneza and Todi 2014 (with vn01), Knoxville 2015 (with Redkop) - 3 challengers; 7 finals lost
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post #37 of 102 (permalink) Old 02-02-2013, 09:55 PM
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Re: Mario Ancic vs his age peers - Soderling, Tsonga and Berdych - in terms of potent

He would be as good as them if not better imo. I believe he would be in their league. I don't see why not.
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post #38 of 102 (permalink) Old 02-02-2013, 09:56 PM
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Re: Mario Ancic vs his age peers - Soderling, Tsonga and Berdych - in terms of potent

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You need to ask your first grade Math teacher to teach you how to count. 1 Slam title > 0. 1 Slam final > 0. It's not that hard; you don't need to understand anything about tennis for this one, which makes it much easier for you, all you need is some basic first grade Math skills.
Better H2H records vs all three, more tournaments won > a fluked slam win and a fluke slam final
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post #39 of 102 (permalink) Old 02-02-2013, 10:01 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Mario Ancic vs his age peers - Soderling, Tsonga and Berdych - in terms of potent

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Originally Posted by Wing Man Frank View Post
Better H2H records vs all three, more tournaments won > a fluked slam win and a fluke slam final
Of course, winning Acapulco and Buenos Aires is much more important than the US Open

Ferrer isn't even good enough to 'fluke' a final. He can win the St Hertongenboschs of this world 1000 times, he will still be inferior to players who won Slams or played in Slam finals. Tsonga and Berdych reached their Slam finals by straight setting Nadal and Djokovic respectively, that's basically more games in one set than Ferrer wins in his entire Slam semis.

MTF games titles:

Suicide Tennis (5): Wimbledon 2014, World Tour Finals 2015, Madrid 2015, Kuala Lumpur 2014 and Metz 2015 - 1 Slam, 1 WTF, 1 Masters 1000, 2 ATP 250; 2 finals lost

Fill-in-the-Draw (3): US Open 2014, Rotterdam 2013 and Geneva 2015 - 1 Slam, 1 ATP 500 and 1 ATP 250

Tennis Tipping (3): Veneza and Todi 2014 (with vn01), Knoxville 2015 (with Redkop) - 3 challengers; 7 finals lost
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post #40 of 102 (permalink) Old 02-02-2013, 10:04 PM
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Re: Mario Ancic vs his age peers - Soderling, Tsonga and Berdych - in terms of potent

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Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
Of course, winning Acapulco and Buenos Aires is much more important than the US Open

Ferrer isn't even good enough to 'fluke' a final. He can win the St Hertongenboschs of this world 1000 times, he will still be inferior to players who won Slams or played in Slam finals. Tsonga and Berdych reached their Slam finals by straight setting Nadal and Djokovic respectively, that's basically more games in one set than Ferrer wins in his entire Slam semis.
Do you understand what a fluke is Lenders?

Clearly not.
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post #41 of 102 (permalink) Old 02-02-2013, 10:06 PM
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Re: Mario Ancic vs his age peers - Soderling, Tsonga and Berdych - in terms of potent

Just to put your ridiculous argument into context, are you therefore saying that Gaston Gaudio is better than Tsonga and Soderling?
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post #42 of 102 (permalink) Old 02-02-2013, 10:07 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Mario Ancic vs his age peers - Soderling, Tsonga and Berdych - in terms of potent

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Do you understand what a fluke is Lenders?

Clearly not.
Yeah, but you clearly you don't. It's basically a stroke of luck that leads to success. Now that I think about it, Ferrer's Bercy title fits perfectly having to face titans like Llodra and Janowicz in the final weekend and having all the top players tank.

There's nothing lucky about beating two of Nadal, Federer and Djokovic in best of 5 back to back to have Slam success, it's basically the hardest path possible.

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Just to put your ridiculous argument into context, are you therefore saying that Gaston Gaudio is better than Tsonga and Soderling?
He might not be a better tennis player over the course of his career, but he's definitely more accomplished much as I prefer Tsonga and Soderling. I'm afraid randomly branding a player's achievements a fluke does not alter the facts

This is completely different though. Ferrer, Tsonga and Berdych peaked in the same era and are facing the same obstacles to get deep into big events so their success is an accurate measure of who the better player is, which is not the case when the comparison is between players who peaked in different eras against different fields (you can gauge who is more accomplished in such cases).

MTF games titles:

Suicide Tennis (5): Wimbledon 2014, World Tour Finals 2015, Madrid 2015, Kuala Lumpur 2014 and Metz 2015 - 1 Slam, 1 WTF, 1 Masters 1000, 2 ATP 250; 2 finals lost

Fill-in-the-Draw (3): US Open 2014, Rotterdam 2013 and Geneva 2015 - 1 Slam, 1 ATP 500 and 1 ATP 250

Tennis Tipping (3): Veneza and Todi 2014 (with vn01), Knoxville 2015 (with Redkop) - 3 challengers; 7 finals lost
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post #43 of 102 (permalink) Old 02-02-2013, 10:12 PM
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Re: Mario Ancic vs his age peers - Soderling, Tsonga and Berdych - in terms of potent

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Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
Yeah, but you clearly you don't. It's basically a stroke of luck that leads to success. Now that I think about it, Ferrer's Bercy title fits perfectly having to face titans like Llodra and Janowicz in the final weekend and having all the top players tank.
Now that you mention it, I remember you claiming that all the top players tanked Paris in order to get ready for London. Del Potro was among them of course, and yet the following week he lost to Ferrer, who was stupid enough not to tank Paris.


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post #44 of 102 (permalink) Old 02-02-2013, 10:15 PM
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Re: Mario Ancic vs his age peers - Soderling, Tsonga and Berdych - in terms of potent

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wing Man Frank View Post
Better H2H records vs all three, more tournaments won > a fluked slam win and a fluke slam final
Ferrer has more tournaments, but you should consider the importance of the tournamentes, don't you think??

Being a "fluke" is a subjective opinion of yours. I could say the same about Ferrer's or any other players's titles and it would be meaningless. The thing is Tsonga, Berdych and Del Potro have grand slam finals and Ferrer does not. Del Potro even has a slam won, and also an olympic medal.

Not to mention that these 3 players are younger than Ferrer, specially Del Potro, who is 6 years younger than Ferrer. He has 13 titles already. Ferrer had 2 titles at that age, he reached 13 last year, being 29.

And saying Ferrer would own Ancic because he owns these 3 players makes no sense whatsoever too.

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post #45 of 102 (permalink) Old 02-02-2013, 10:22 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Mario Ancic vs his age peers - Soderling, Tsonga and Berdych - in terms of potent

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Originally Posted by Deathless Mortal View Post
Now that you mention it, I remember you claiming that all the top players tanked Paris in order to get ready for London. Del Potro was among them of course, and yet the following week he lost to Ferrer, who was stupid enough not to tank Paris.
Good for him. He was still eliminated while Del Potro advanced to the semis with Federer in that group. But I suppose getting a few token wins over a GS winner is what it was all about.

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Originally Posted by BauerAlmeida View Post
Ferrer has more tournaments, but you should consider the importance of the tournamentes, don't you think??

Being a "fluke" is a subjective opinion of yours. I could say the same about Ferrer's or any other players's titles and it would be meaningless. The thing is Tsonga, Berdych and Del Potro have grand slam finals and Ferrer does not. Del Potro even has a slam won, and also an olympic medal.

Not to mention that these 3 players are younger than Ferrer, specially Del Potro, who is 6 years younger than Ferrer. He has 13 titles already. Ferrer had 2 titles at that age, he reached 13 last year, being 29.

And saying Ferrer would own Ancic because he owns these 3 players makes no sense whatsoever too.
This post makes far too sense to be wasted on WingManFrank. It's almost as if you're suggesting that actual results are a better gauge of a player's level/achievements than subjective remarks about certain titles being 'flukes' or not.

MTF games titles:

Suicide Tennis (5): Wimbledon 2014, World Tour Finals 2015, Madrid 2015, Kuala Lumpur 2014 and Metz 2015 - 1 Slam, 1 WTF, 1 Masters 1000, 2 ATP 250; 2 finals lost

Fill-in-the-Draw (3): US Open 2014, Rotterdam 2013 and Geneva 2015 - 1 Slam, 1 ATP 500 and 1 ATP 250

Tennis Tipping (3): Veneza and Todi 2014 (with vn01), Knoxville 2015 (with Redkop) - 3 challengers; 7 finals lost
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