Mario Ancic vs his age peers - Soderling, Tsonga and Berdych - in terms of potential - Page 2 - MensTennisForums.com
View Poll Results: What was Ancic's potential compared to his age peers - Soderling, Berdych and Tsonga?
He could have been better than them 14 30.43%
Roughly the same 13 28.26%
He was inferior to them 19 41.30%
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

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post #16 of 102 (permalink) Old 02-02-2013, 05:34 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Mario Ancic vs his age peers - Soderling, Tsonga and Berdych - in terms of potent

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Originally Posted by djokovicgonzalez View Post
Would likely have done the most of any of them. Had a more all around game than Sod or Berdych and a little less shaky than Tsonga.
Also, Ferrer used to have a bigger forehand takeback.
Surprisingly, I fully agree with you this time. He does not have an obvious weakness to be exploited like those three do, he has a more all around game for sure. Also, I feel that Soderling and Berdych's inability to follow their massive shots into the net has proved detrimental to them, it is probably why Tsonga, despite having an horrendous ROS and BH and being less steady than them in general, is pretty much on the same level as they are so far - he can finish points easier than them.

Net rushing/serve & volley is kind of dead these days, but following massive shots into the net and putting loopy returns away is still an incredibly valuable skill.

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post #17 of 102 (permalink) Old 02-02-2013, 06:38 PM
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Re: Mario Ancic vs his age peers - Soderling, Tsonga and Berdych - in terms of potent

He would've been in the top 20, maybe lower top 10 for a bit. Soderling, Berdych and Tsonga are all better than him though. More power and they're just better players. Don't get me started on the Big 4, he would have nothing that could challenge any of them.

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post #18 of 102 (permalink) Old 02-02-2013, 06:39 PM
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Re: Mario Ancic vs his age peers - Soderling, Tsonga and Berdych - in terms of potent

we could have used him in doubles today

my favorite was the worst number 3 player in the world
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post #19 of 102 (permalink) Old 02-02-2013, 07:06 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Mario Ancic vs his age peers - Soderling, Tsonga and Berdych - in terms of potent

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Originally Posted by Sapeod View Post
He would've been in the top 20, maybe lower top 10 for a bit. Soderling, Berdych and Tsonga are all better than him though. More power and they're just better players. Don't get me started on the Big 4, he would have nothing that could challenge any of them.
Insightful analysis as always from you You do know he beat Murray three times, right? Yes, I know Murray wasn't the same player he is today in 2008 (although it was the year he broke into the top 5 and made his first Slam final) but Ancic was hardly as good as he could have been considering it was his return year from mono. He probably did have something to hurt him.

Also, prior to the beginning of his succession of injury and ilness Ancic was significantly ahead of the other three. This does not mean of course that he'd continue being better in the future, but the way you dismiss him it seems like it was obvious all along he was the worst of the 4, when in fact if you asked tennis fans/pundits in 2004-2006 almost all of them would have picked Mario and with good reason.

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post #20 of 102 (permalink) Old 02-02-2013, 07:11 PM
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Re: Mario Ancic vs his age peers - Soderling, Tsonga and Berdych - in terms of potent

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Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
Insightful analysis as always from you You do know he beat Murray three times, right? Yes, I know Murray wasn't the same player he is today in 2008 (although it was the year he broke into the top 5 and made his first Slam final) but Ancic was hardly as good as he could have been considering it was his return year from mono. He probably did have something to hurt him.

Also, prior to the beginning of his succession of injury and ilness Ancic was significantly ahead of the other three. This does not mean of course that he'd continue being better in the future, but the way you dismiss him it seems like it was obvious all along he was the worst of the 4, when in fact if you asked tennis fans/pundits in 2004-2006 almost all of them would have picked Mario and with good reason.
I'm talking about nowadays obviously. He'd be under Tsonga/Berdych/Soderling without a doubt and would have no chance against the Big 4, more often than not.

Andy is superior to Ancic in almost every way except for net play and even then, it's pretty close when Andy plays well in that department. Ancic wouldn't threaten Andy at all in today's game.

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post #21 of 102 (permalink) Old 02-02-2013, 07:28 PM
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Re: Mario Ancic vs his age peers - Soderling, Tsonga and Berdych - in terms of potent

It's tough to tell because, like pointed, the three players being mentioned have been evolving as the years passed while Mario had to stop, thus leaving a BIG question mark in relation to the topic.

I think there's a bit of a display of overrating in the opening post, Lenders, since Ancic was from the 'huge hitter from both sides' you're trying to portrait. sure, he had power and could do damage with his groundstrokes but the difference between his and the other three in that department is way more than just 'slight' (talking about power). Even if i was way younger between those years, i'd still watch a lot of tennis back then and i'm glad to have been able to see Mario in his peak, was a fun player to watch but never really thought of him as 'the next big thing' or remotely close, more like a solid top 15-20 player with some short stints in the top 10 for the rest of his career.

While it's fair to say he was probably more well rounded and consistent, with less 'clear' weaknesses, he also lacked the huge weapons the other 3 do have (Soderling and Berdych clearly had more raw, natural power back then than Ancic and out of the three Tsonga is probably the one that benefitted the most from maturing and increasing shot power as the years went on). You're also exaggerating in regards to his general speed/movement IMO, wasn't as good and his extremely long swing on his forehand (not proportional to the speed generated, Burrow spot on there) halted him to get out of difficult situations on the run with big winners, etc.
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post #22 of 102 (permalink) Old 02-02-2013, 07:28 PM
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Re: Mario Ancic vs his age peers - Soderling, Tsonga and Berdych - in terms of potent

you're assuming his game would have stagnated. he was ahead of sod, berd and tsonga before his illness

my favorite was the worst number 3 player in the world
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post #23 of 102 (permalink) Old 02-02-2013, 08:01 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Mario Ancic vs his age peers - Soderling, Tsonga and Berdych - in terms of potent

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Originally Posted by Sapeod View Post
I'm talking about nowadays obviously. He'd be under Tsonga/Berdych/Soderling without a doubt and would have no chance against the Big 4, more often than not.

Andy is superior to Ancic in almost every way except for net play and even then, it's pretty close when Andy plays well in that department. Ancic wouldn't threaten Andy at all in today's game.
Ancic's net game was soundly superior to Murray's. He also had a better serve and forehand. But that's beside the point here, point is how can you be so sure he'd be under those guys, did you watch him play in his early years?

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Originally Posted by Vinceremo View Post
It's tough to tell because, like pointed, the three players being mentioned have been evolving as the years passed while Mario had to stop, thus leaving a BIG question mark in relation to the topic.

I think there's a bit of a display of overrating in the opening post, Lenders, since Ancic was from the 'huge hitter from both sides' you're trying to portrait. sure, he had power and could do damage with his groundstrokes but the difference between his and the other three in that department is way more than just 'slight' (talking about power). Even if i was way younger between those years, i'd still watch a lot of tennis back then and i'm glad to have been able to see Mario in his peak, was a fun player to watch but never really thought of him as 'the next big thing' or remotely close, more like a solid top 15-20 player with some short stints in the top 10 for the rest of his career.

While it's fair to say he was probably more well rounded and consistent, with less 'clear' weaknesses, he also lacked the huge weapons the other 3 do have (Soderling and Berdych clearly had more raw, natural power back then than Ancic and out of the three Tsonga is probably the one that benefitted the most from maturing and increasing shot power as the years went on). You're also exaggerating in regards to his general speed/movement IMO, wasn't as good and his extremely long swing on his forehand (not proportional to the speed generated, Burrow spot on there) halted him to get out of difficult situations on the run with big winners, etc.

As Croat123 said, you're assuming he'd not develop. He was way ahead of his three age peers before his injury saga began. Granted, they have made big strides in their game to get where they are now, but who's to say Ancic wouldn't? It's very tough to argue he had maxed out his potential before his 22nd birthday. If you were to ask this question in, say, 2006, I'd say most people would predict Ancic to be the best of his age group and with good reason.

You thought Mario would be a solid 15-20 player with short top 10 stints? He was better than that before his jetski accident that sidelined him for several months in 2006 (and kept him from entering the TMC), he was ranked inside the top 8 and had only lost to Federer in the previous two Slams. You think he'd get worse as he aged?

As for his movement, it was underrated. Unlike Berdych or Soderling, he was capable of grinding out matches where his weapons weren't working even against very good players. The prime example is this match against Murray in Indian Wells during his last comeback attempts. People who watched it will surely confirm this is one of the ugliest matches you'll ever watch. His match with Verdasco at Wimbledon during his last hurrah in 2008 is also a good example but can't find highlights for that one, Mario was capable to win important matches even when his weapons were not firing:

[youtube]O3ZuwZ68ZLM[/youtube]

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post #24 of 102 (permalink) Old 02-02-2013, 08:55 PM
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Re: Mario Ancic vs his age peers - Soderling, Tsonga and Berdych - in terms of potent

He would have been a beast on grass. A potential Wimbledon finalist at least.

I doubt he would have had much impact at the other slams but he was capable of becoming a solid regular quarter-final player and establishing himself in the top 10.

He'd become such a fighter before he was forced out of the game. Like Lenders said, that match against Murray was a good example of what he had become. When things weren't going well he could grind with the best of them.

I'd say "roughly the same" from the poll.
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post #25 of 102 (permalink) Old 02-02-2013, 09:16 PM
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Re: Mario Ancic vs his age peers - Soderling, Tsonga and Berdych - in terms of potent

He had a better serve, ROS and backhand than Tsonga, a worse forehand but equal volleys. His baseline game overall probably isn't as good as the other three but his grass game would have undoubtedly been the best. He broke through a lot earlier than those guys as well so not sure if he would decline sooner.

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post #26 of 102 (permalink) Old 02-02-2013, 09:43 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Mario Ancic vs his age peers - Soderling, Tsonga and Berdych - in terms of potent

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He had a better serve, ROS and backhand than Tsonga, a worse forehand but equal volleys. His baseline game overall probably isn't as good as the other three but his grass game would have undoubtedly been the best. He broke through a lot earlier than those guys as well so not sure if he would decline sooner.
You really think so? I think Ancic has way more variety in his volleys and approaches the net far more sensibly than Tsonga. Tsonga is an excellent volleyer for today's standards, but remember Mario made a few great Wimbledon runs in his early years by serve & volleying his way through

I think Tsonga has a slightly better serve though, both have good variety and disguise and good 1st serve %, but Tsonga has more power on it I think and also a better second serve.

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He would have been a beast on grass. A potential Wimbledon finalist at least.

I doubt he would have had much impact at the other slams but he was capable of becoming a solid regular quarter-final player and establishing himself in the top 10.

He'd become such a fighter before he was forced out of the game. Like Lenders said, that match against Murray was a good example of what he had become. When things weren't going well he could grind with the best of them.

I'd say "roughly the same" from the poll.
Yup, many people seem to think of Ancic and the serve & volley 20yo that was close to a Wimbledon final, he had become much more by 2006, let alone upon his comeback, he was a tremendous fighter and could grind it out even with someone like Murray.

Great post overall, I also believe grass is where he'd be a real contender. He had a lot to offer to the tour though, such a shame his career ended so tragically.

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post #27 of 102 (permalink) Old 02-02-2013, 09:44 PM
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Re: Mario Ancic vs his age peers - Soderling, Tsonga and Berdych - in terms of potent

I miss Ancic.

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post #28 of 102 (permalink) Old 02-02-2013, 09:46 PM
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Re: Mario Ancic vs his age peers - Soderling, Tsonga and Berdych - in terms of potent

The Ancic I remember is the one that nearly got beat at Wimbledon by an 18 year old Djokovic.

Time makes fools of us. We allow ourselves to believe things were better than they really were.
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post #29 of 102 (permalink) Old 02-02-2013, 09:56 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Mario Ancic vs his age peers - Soderling, Tsonga and Berdych - in terms of potent

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The Ancic I remember is the one that nearly got beat at Wimbledon by an 18 year old Djokovic.

Time makes fools of us. We allow ourselves to believe things were better than they really were.
It's not time that's making a fool of you, you're doing it yourself.

But yes, the same Djokovic who now holds 6 Slams and is #1 in the world and who would go on to reach the semis of Wimbledon the following year (leading Nadal before having to retire) and make several more semis and even win a title there. Clearly, needing 5 sets to beat him is very embarrassing

You could have at least mentioned his defeat to Nole in USO 2005 or to Nadal at Wimbledon 2003 if you really wanted to clutch at straws in any convincing way, instead of a match he won.

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post #30 of 102 (permalink) Old 02-02-2013, 09:57 PM
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Re: Mario Ancic vs his age peers - Soderling, Tsonga and Berdych - in terms of potent

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It's not time that's making a fool of you, you're doing it yourself.

But yes, the same Djokovic who now holds 6 Slams and is #1 in the world and who would go on to reach the semis of Wimbledon the following year (leading Nadal before having to retire) and make several more semis and even win a title there. Clearly, needing 5 sets to beat him is very embarrassing

You could have at least mentioned his defeat to Nole in USO 2005 or to Nadal at Wimbledon 2003 if you really wanted to clutch at straws in any convincing way, instead of a match he won.
Wasn't it generally accepted Ancic was better on grass? Hence the reason I mentioned it.

Keep up Lenders.
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