Djokovic: "The same Slams as Edberg and Becker? I got shivers..." - Page 6 - MensTennisForums.com

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post #76 of 170 (permalink) Old 02-01-2013, 03:16 AM
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Re: Djokovic: "The same Slams as Edberg and Becker? I got shivers..."

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Originally Posted by BauerAlmeida View Post
Nole, would play more agressive against that Fed, like he did in Montreal and the first 2 sets of the Uso final (both in 2007). Fed would still win more than Nole. But matches would be close, except on grass were Nole wouldn't stand a chance.
That was a strange final- Fed was shaky and Nole was very offensive-minded. He really went for his shots and had 40-0 *6-5 in the first set before choking.

The problem with playing the younger Fed was getting the first strike in before he did as usually if he got the ball on his forehand he would end the point in 1-2 shots.

It still frustrates me Nalbandian lost to Baghdatis at the AO as Roger was off-colour that tournament and I think David could have won his slam there.

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post #77 of 170 (permalink) Old 02-01-2013, 03:19 AM
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Re: Djokovic: "The same Slams as Edberg and Becker? I got shivers..."

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Peak Fed is a myth. He was arguably the best player ever in his peak. But if you think he would lose only to Nadal on clay and not 1 more match or if you think 2011 Novak would be Slamless, think again. If you ask 'would Fed have more Slams than Novak' - yes. Would Novak still grab a decent number of Slams - yes.
Exactly.

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post #78 of 170 (permalink) Old 02-01-2013, 03:20 AM
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Re: Djokovic: "The same Slams as Edberg and Becker? I got shivers..."

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The problem Nole would have against a prime form of Fed is mostly the match-up- Olderer form had match points against him in New York and beat him in RG because his variety gives Nole trouble. The old form of Fed possessed not only the serve and the variety, but probably the best forehand I've ever seen and the ability to just destroy opposition off the bat.

Murray can count himself quite lucky he's playing now and not when Roger was peaking cause I think he'd absolutely pulverise Andy across the board.
This is a good point. One of the most unheralded qualities of Federer in his prime were his insane streaks/purple patches. You just knew that in almost every match he played he'd string a couple of games or even an entire set where everything he touched turned into gold and completely demoralize his opponent. This is not unique from Peak Federer: actually Tsonga also has this trait, difference being after his purple patches Jo usually has spells where he can't find the court, while Federer was basically playing at an incredibly high level all match and then had patches where it was just stratospheric.

It'd have been very difficult for any player in tennis history to win a Slam off clay in the 2004-2007 period with Federer around. In fact, only Safin did it and most recognize that his peak level is one of the highest ever.

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post #79 of 170 (permalink) Old 02-01-2013, 03:21 AM
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Re: Djokovic: "The same Slams as Edberg and Becker? I got shivers..."

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Originally Posted by rocketassist View Post
That was a strange final- Fed was shaky and Nole was very offensive-minded. He really went for his shots and had 40-0 *6-5 in the first set before choking.

The problem with playing the younger Fed was getting the first strike in before he did as usually if he got the ball on his forehand he would end the point in 1-2 shots.

It still frustrates me Nalbandian lost to Baghdatis at the AO as Roger was off-colour that tournament and I think David could have won his slam there.
Yes. He beat him two months before in the Masters final and was beating him in RG a few months later before getting injured. That AO and USO 2003 were his best chances to win a slam.

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post #80 of 170 (permalink) Old 02-01-2013, 03:31 AM
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Re: Djokovic: "The same Slams as Edberg and Becker? I got shivers..."

My opinion - Fed would win average 2 Slams a year, Nadal and Novak 1 each. But that's all could've, would've, should've. Maybe Novak would break out 1st and destroy Fed few times and develop his game in a different way that wouldn't suit Federer. Maybe that would be his main goal - like he changed his style in 2011 in order to win, maybe he would change his style to be more aggressive or whatever in order to stop Fed. Maybe Fed would (wrongly) change his gameplan after getting owned few times and we would never see his true potential. It all looks easy now 'player's A peak > players B peak' he would win everything. There's bunch of stuff that could influence each of them and they would become different players (like a different coach for example). It is what it is, we can never know what would really happen.

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post #81 of 170 (permalink) Old 02-01-2013, 03:32 AM
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Re: Djokovic: "The same Slams as Edberg and Becker? I got shivers..."

Nole beat peak Fed in AO 2008 in 3 if i recall But ofc Olderertads will say he was past his peak at 27 Funny when he started losing from better players and getting owned right and left his 'peak' suddenly went away. Pathetic Fedtards

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post #82 of 170 (permalink) Old 02-01-2013, 03:38 AM
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Re: Djokovic: "The same Slams as Edberg and Becker? I got shivers..."

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Nole beat peak Fed in AO 2008 in 3 if i recall But ofc Olderertads will say he was past his peak at 27 Funny when he started losing from better players and getting owned right and left his 'peak' suddenly went away. Pathetic Fedtards
Every non hater knows he had mono that year. Making slam semis-finals with crippling illness is easy, really. I mean it only put out Soderling for months with no return in sight, what a spartan warrior this Noserer is. Made RG/W finals and won USO 2008 practically on his deathbed.
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post #83 of 170 (permalink) Old 02-01-2013, 03:44 AM
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Re: Djokovic: "The same Slams as Edberg and Becker? I got shivers..."

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Every non hater knows he had mono that year. Making slam semis-finals with crippling illness is easy, really. I mean it only put out Soderling for months with no return in sight, what a spartan warrior this Noserer is. Made RG/W finals and won USO 2008 practically on his deathbed.
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post #84 of 170 (permalink) Old 02-01-2013, 03:44 AM
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Re: Djokovic: "The same Slams as Edberg and Becker? I got shivers..."

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Nole beat peak Fed in AO 2008 in 3 if i recall But ofc Olderertads will say he was past his peak at 27 Funny when he started losing from better players and getting owned right and left his 'peak' suddenly went away. Pathetic Fedtards
Firstly, I don't think it's that unusual for a tennis player to be past their peak at 27. Not everyone is Ferrer.

Secondly, if you look at Federer's results in 2008 onwards (which I'm sure you did before posting) you will see he started losing more than he had done before, and to some players he would expect to beat, as well as your favourite Djokovic.

Thirdly, I think that when you start losing more than you did before, and can't reach the same level of play on a consistent basis, then, you know, you're probably past your peak...
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post #85 of 170 (permalink) Old 02-01-2013, 03:46 AM
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Re: Djokovic: "The same Slams as Edberg and Becker? I got shivers..."

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Every non hater knows he had mono that year. Making slam semis-finals with crippling illness is easy, really. I mean it only put out Soderling for months with no return in sight, what a spartan warrior this Noserer is. Made RG/W finals and won USO 2008 practically on his deathbed.
They had different types of mono. Normal mono, I'm sure a lot of posters here had it or have a friend who had it - it takes you out for a few weeks tops but there are no long term effects. It's a quite common disease, especially for people who make a habit of kissing randoms as it is orally transmitted.

Infectious mono, well let's just say Federer's career at the highest level would have ended in 2008 had that been the case. Contrary to what some might believe, winning a lot of Slams doesn't make Federer's immunity system stronger than Ancic's or Soderling's.

Federer had a normal bout of mono, at most it hindered his AO preparations, but in no way does it have lasting debilitating effects.

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post #86 of 170 (permalink) Old 02-01-2013, 03:52 AM
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Re: Djokovic: "The same Slams as Edberg and Becker? I got shivers..."

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Firstly, I don't think it's that unusual for a tennis player to be past their peak at 27. Not everyone is Ferrer.

Secondly, if you look at Federer's results in 2008 onwards (which I'm sure you did before posting) you will see he started losing more than he had done before, and to some players he would expect to beat, as well as your favourite Djokovic.

Thirdly, I think that when you start losing more than you did before, and can't reach the same level of play on a consistent basis, then, you know, you're probably past your peak...
Or maybe, but just maybe, players that beat him were better then he is at that moment. Saying Olderer passed his peak if he lose few times is dumb. Basicly what are you saying peak Olderer cannot lose, and if he does peak is done. Bar Nadal owning him left and right on clay

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post #87 of 170 (permalink) Old 02-01-2013, 03:53 AM
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Re: Djokovic: "The same Slams as Edberg and Becker? I got shivers..."

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Originally Posted by Topspindoctor View Post
Every non hater knows he had mono that year. Making slam semis-finals with crippling illness is easy, really. I mean it only put out Soderling for months with no return in sight, what a spartan warrior this Noserer is. Made RG/W finals and won USO 2008 practically on his deathbed.
Spartan Olderer.

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post #88 of 170 (permalink) Old 02-01-2013, 03:55 AM
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Re: Djokovic: "The same Slams as Edberg and Becker? I got shivers..."

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Federer had a normal bout of mono, at most it hindered his AO preparations, but in no way does it have lasting debilitating effects.
except you forget the effect it had on his confidence

totally knocked his aura, (2007 was already showing signs of him going downhill)

the rg final cost fed the wimbledon final- (federers game matches up so good against nadal on grass- with a lower bounce- more ammunition on the serve, and all around faster surface)
nadal is a great grass player- but not an all time great on grass

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post #89 of 170 (permalink) Old 02-01-2013, 04:05 AM
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Re: Djokovic: "The same Slams as Edberg and Becker? I got shivers..."

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Or maybe, but just maybe, players that beat him were better then he is at that moment. Saying Olderer passed his peak if he lose few times is dumb. Basicly what are you saying peak Olderer cannot lose, and if he does peak is done. Bar Nadal owning him left and right on clay
No - that's not what I stated; you misunderstand. Perhaps willfully.

Of course players at their peak lose.

But when a player loses more frequently, against players one would expect him to beat, and his level of play decreases, or cannot be reached as consistently as before, then it is fair to say they are no longer at the peak of their powers in the sport.
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post #90 of 170 (permalink) Old 02-01-2013, 04:12 AM
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Re: Djokovic: "The same Slams as Edberg and Becker? I got shivers..."

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No - that's not what I stated; you misunderstand. Perhaps willfully.

Of course players at their peak lose.

But when a player loses more frequently, against players one would expect him to beat, and his level of play decreases, or cannot be reached as consistently as before, then it is fair to say they are no longer at the peak of their powers in the sport.
With that logic we can say that for example Nadal peak was at 2008 and 2010 and Nole 2011 and rest of years when they won slams and were 'solid' and losing bit more was past peak?

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