Djokovic: "The same Slams as Edberg and Becker? I got shivers..." - Page 4 - MensTennisForums.com
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post #46 of 170 (permalink) Old 02-01-2013, 12:27 AM
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Re: Djokovic: "The same Slams as Edberg and Becker? I got shivers..."

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Originally Posted by Mountaindewslave View Post
this. and that's some bullshit in the interview about the game being tougher and players training so much harder to face, harder to win tournaments now than before. it's way easier.

for fun since Hipolymer has decided to bring up the era debate, let's make an interesting note. HOW MANY dangerous players do you seem in draws these days? I'll give you an answer. hardly any! no confidence, no big hitting etc.

it's not that there weren't great players for Fed Ex to face in the mid 2000s, it's that he was just THAT good. I mean think about it! just off the top of my head, players who had brilliant form and were threats on/off a the time, Hewitt, Blake, Gonzales, Davydenko, Soderling, Nalbandian, Roddick etc. they were QUITE good enough to beat Federer, but they were all considered threats, people you watched in the draw.

today all there are players like Tsonga and Berdych who are expected to choke everything away. the reality is the tour is weaker than even during Federer's prime, the top 4 are great players but no better than say other top 4's in the 80s and 90s. they just have lucked out because of the lack of depth and confidence and threats throughout the top 100.

just as an example, Djokovic has matched Becker's slam count and likely will exceed it, but does anyone REALLY think that Novak is a better play than Boris was?
certainly the adjusting of surfaces and weak tour has helped make the top 4 guys look better than they would be if playing in a stronger era. I say this even about Nadal. Federer is the exception, and for the sake of argument I will once again emphasize the fact that he was SO good in his prime and dominated so much that it made the tour appear weaker than it was. the reality is in 2005/6/7 there were a lot more threats around than there are now. less because of how great the top guys are as much as how bad the field is.
I've seen a lot of matches of Becker and Edberg and I think Djokovic is better than both of them. If he already matched their acomplishments being 25 years old he will certainly increase the difference in the near future. I don't think Edberg and Becker could have a year like Djokovic had in 2011, dominating like that (they never did) everyone else.

And if today (by today I mean the last 3-4 years) there aren't dangerous players in the draws if because Nadal, Federer and Djokovic are that good. Just like Federer was that good in 2004-2007 that those players you mentioned could not beat him. Do you think that those players would beat Djokovic?? Gonzalez and Blake aren't better than Tsonga and Berdych. Roddick isn't better than Murray. I agree that there is not much depth outside the top 3/4 nowadays, and there was a bit more in 2004-2005, but from 2006 on there wasn't much depth either. Boredo and Stepanek made the top 10. Ljubicic and Davydenko were Top 3. It was only Federer and Nadal untill Djokovic appeared. Now there's less depth but there are 3 all time greats playing, that's why other players don't have a shot. Murray just won a slam last year and he is better than all those players you mentioned from 2004-2007. Players like Tsonga and Berdych would have more chances back then before the surfaces were slowed down to ridiculous levels.

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post #47 of 170 (permalink) Old 02-01-2013, 12:31 AM
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Re: Djokovic: "The same Slams as Edberg and Becker? I got shivers..."

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eggcellent deduction skills and without false exaggeration you sir, are an egghead
No need to act as if you have an egg on your face


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post #48 of 170 (permalink) Old 02-01-2013, 12:44 AM
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Re: Djokovic: "The same Slams as Edberg and Becker? I got shivers..."

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No need to act as if you have an egg on your face
nothing of the sort, just overemphasizing the egg-thing, unlike you

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post #49 of 170 (permalink) Old 02-01-2013, 01:03 AM
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Re: Djokovic: "The same Slams as Edberg and Becker? I got shivers..."

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Originally Posted by Time Violation View Post
Gimme a break, so it blows now, but it was strong when Ljubicic was #3? As someone recently said, he was a great player, except he couldn't play well in slams
There are times when players mathematically achieve a high ranking even though they really have no business being there:
Bjorkman was #4 in 1997
Corretja was #3 in 1998
Enqvist was #4 in 1999
Norman was #4 in 2000
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post #50 of 170 (permalink) Old 02-01-2013, 01:04 AM
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Re: Djokovic: "The same Slams as Edberg and Becker? I got shivers..."

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Originally Posted by stewietennis View Post
There are times when players mathematically achieve a high ranking even if they really have no business being there:
Bjorkman was #4 in 1997
Corretja was #3 in 1998
Enqvist was #4 in 1999
Norman was #4 in 2000
Corretja is arguably the greatest clay court player without an RG, Enqvist was a phenomenal striker of a ball, far more talented than Johansson and Norman reached the RG final.

Did you even watch these players?

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post #51 of 170 (permalink) Old 02-01-2013, 01:25 AM
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Re: Djokovic: "The same Slams as Edberg and Becker? I got shivers..."

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Corretja is arguably the greatest clay court player without an RG, Enqvist was a phenomenal striker of a ball, far more talented than Johansson and Norman reached the RG final.

Did you even watch these players?
I see you're not disputing Bjorkman. I saw Enqvist when he was still playing and didn't know who to cheer for in that AO final, but compared to now, I'm not really that impressed looking back. Seemed more like a Fernando Gonzales with less power. And I don't think Gonzales broke into the Top 3 during his peak. I agree, more talented than Johansson but at least Johansson's ability matched his highest ranking. I watched Norman during the Sydney Olympics but wasn't really impressed from what I remember. I watched the Corretja match against Moya and he looked as hapless as Murray does now.
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post #52 of 170 (permalink) Old 02-01-2013, 01:44 AM
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Re: Djokovic: "The same Slams as Edberg and Becker? I got shivers..."

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Originally Posted by garad View Post
if you take mid 00s literally, "mugerer" still won 13 GS after this "week era". And after Djokovic won his first slam, this mugerer won 5 more of his, i.e. only 1 less than Djoko in the same period. And this was when he was past his prime with all the tough competition in place, right...

You, sir, are wrong..)
If the big 4 all peaked at the same time and were the same age, the big 3 would most likely be splitting the slam count with murray maybe vulturing 1.

Bye Bye "GOAT" status in that case.

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post #53 of 170 (permalink) Old 02-01-2013, 01:57 AM
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Re: Djokovic: "The same Slams as Edberg and Becker? I got shivers..."

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I see you're not disputing Bjorkman. I saw Enqvist when he was still playing and didn't know who to cheer for in that AO final, but compared to now, I'm not really that impressed looking back. Seemed more like a Fernando Gonzales with less power. And I don't think Gonzales broke into the Top 3 during his peak. I agree, more talented than Johansson but at least Johansson's ability matched his highest ranking. I watched Norman during the Sydney Olympics but wasn't really impressed from what I remember. I watched the Corretja match against Moya and he looked as hapless as Murray does now.
Norman was a clay courter. Hard courts weren't his forte.

Corretja lost that one yes but he gave Guga a great battle in 2001.

Enqvist is one of the more frustrating talents of the late 90s/early 00s. Didn't fulfil it despite conditions far more favourable to him than those with similar games today. 1999 was his big chance against Kafelnikov and he didn't come through.

I agree Bjorkman was weaker. Didn't win a singles TMS I don't think. Two slam semis the highlight of his singles career at least.

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post #54 of 170 (permalink) Old 02-01-2013, 01:59 AM
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Re: Djokovic: "The same Slams as Edberg and Becker? I got shivers..."

Of course he got shivers, Fakervic knows he's a fraud. Like feeling the shadow of death walk by you, he gets shivers knowing how unbelievable (some could even say offensive to the senses) that he is a multi-slam winner.
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post #55 of 170 (permalink) Old 02-01-2013, 02:05 AM
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Re: Djokovic: "The same Slams as Edberg and Becker? I got shivers..."

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Originally Posted by Mountaindewslave View Post
just as an example, Djokovic has matched Becker's slam count and likely will exceed it, but does anyone REALLY think that Novak is a better play than Boris was?
certainly the adjusting of surfaces and weak tour has helped make the top 4 guys look better than they would be if playing in a stronger era. I say this even about Nadal. Federer is the exception, and for the sake of argument I will once again emphasize the fact that he was SO good in his prime and dominated so much that it made the tour appear weaker than it was. the reality is in 2005/6/7 there were a lot more threats around than there are now. less because of how great the top guys are as much as how bad the field is.

I love it how you insist that Federer is the big exception

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post #56 of 170 (permalink) Old 02-01-2013, 02:13 AM
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Re: Djokovic: "The same Slams as Edberg and Becker? I got shivers..."

I liked djokovic more when he was very offensive (circa 2007 to 2008 aus open). He relies way too much on defense nowadays (but i guess one has to with the courts being slowed to hell)
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post #57 of 170 (permalink) Old 02-01-2013, 02:21 AM
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Re: Djokovic: "The same Slams as Edberg and Becker? I got shivers..."

more slams coming ....

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post #58 of 170 (permalink) Old 02-01-2013, 02:54 AM
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Re: Djokovic: "The same Slams as Edberg and Becker? I got shivers..."

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Owned.
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post #59 of 170 (permalink) Old 02-01-2013, 03:08 AM
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Re: Djokovic: "The same Slams as Edberg and Becker? I got shivers..."

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Originally Posted by Mr. Oracle View Post
If the big 4 all peaked at the same time and were the same age, the big 3 would most likely be splitting the slam count with murray maybe vulturing 1.

Bye Bye "GOAT" status in that case.
No. Fed would still win 3 slams a year with Nadal taking RG.
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post #60 of 170 (permalink) Old 02-01-2013, 03:13 AM
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Re: Djokovic: "The same Slams as Edberg and Becker? I got shivers..."

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No. Fed would still win 3 slams a year with Nadal taking RG.
No.

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