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post #16 of 43 (permalink) Old 01-26-2013, 05:00 AM
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Re: DILEMMA: Is Andy Murray a transitional slam champion?

Why are you so obsessed with trying to build constructs in order to classify players? There are so many unaccounted variables here that you can't possibly hope to make accurate predictions based on these retarded classifications. You seem to be basing your entire model off of the one example of the gap between Sampras and Federer. Their type of prolonged dominance is exceedingly rare throughout the course of tennis history. There's no reason to believe Murray is going to be squeezed out by a new GOAT anytime soon.
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post #17 of 43 (permalink) Old 01-26-2013, 05:05 AM
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Re: DILEMMA: Is Andy Murray a transitional slam champion?

Yes, to the Tomic era.

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post #18 of 43 (permalink) Old 01-26-2013, 05:16 AM
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Re: DILEMMA: Is Andy Murray a transitional slam champion?

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Originally Posted by djokovicgonzalez View Post
I mean, this is definitely Djokovic's mini-era. Murray isn't so much a transitional champ as someone who got a Slam in when another man had control of the game.
If Djokovic maintains being the man to beat this season then it will definitely be his 'mini-era' of the past few seasons. but otherwise, no. for a player to be considered an era they really have to be the man to beat for seasons and seasons. few players would I even close to give this credit to, maybe Borg (late 70's into 80s), Roger (2004-2009), Sampras (1990s).
and Murray is and isn't. he did happen to win his slam when some of the better players on tour were declining but another great player is his same age (Djokovic and Nadal) so it makes this concept rather flawed. also Andy came close to winning slams (well uhhh sorta) for a few years now. also, unfortunately, he can't be a 'transitional champion' because the young generations blow and are never going to show up. the liklihood is that nothing is going to transition much when Nadal/Federer are gone, but more that Murray/Djokovic will just keep winning the biggest tournaments. or Tomic of course.

I hope to god some youngsters do really bring their game and a new era and that Murray ends up being a transitional tennis grand slam champion. because otherwise it will be a boring couple of years

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post #19 of 43 (permalink) Old 01-26-2013, 05:36 AM
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Re: DILEMMA: Is Andy Murray a transitional slam champion?

Im sorry i thought the title said "DILEMMA: Is Andy Murray a transexual slam champion?"

Im not trying to start anything but i swear i thought it said that.
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post #20 of 43 (permalink) Old 01-26-2013, 10:16 AM
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Re: DILEMMA: Is Andy Murray a transitional slam champion?

Murray and Djokovic are going to dominate the next 12 slams if they stay fit and share them between one another, particularly the next 6 hard court slams. The only exception will be at the French Open and Wimbledon where Federer and Nadal (subject to return to full fitness) can still win. The likes of Tsonga, Berdych and Del Potro will remain dangerous, but will never win a slam in the next 3 years.
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post #21 of 43 (permalink) Old 01-26-2013, 10:44 AM
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Re: DILEMMA: Is Andy Murray a transitional slam champion?

Djokovic and Murray are 26 in a couple of months. If you think they are going to maintain this level of play and dominate Slams until they are 29 then you are in for a fair bit of disappointment.
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post #22 of 43 (permalink) Old 01-26-2013, 10:47 AM
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Re: DILEMMA: Is Andy Murray a transitional slam champion?

^ And who would stop them? David Ferrer can still compete and win among these youngsters despite the age and to some extent Tommy Haas. It would really give you a picture about the situation right now. And that's not saying Nole and Murray have far superior fitness than the other two.

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post #23 of 43 (permalink) Old 01-26-2013, 10:48 AM
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Re: DILEMMA: Is Andy Murray a transitional slam champion?

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Djokovic and Murray are 26 in a couple of months. If you think they are going to maintain this level of play and dominate Slams until they are 29 then you are in for a fair bit of disappointment.
They'll be there abouts for another few years. Who else is going to overtake them?

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post #24 of 43 (permalink) Old 01-26-2013, 10:50 AM
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Re: DILEMMA: Is Andy Murray a transitional slam champion?

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post #25 of 43 (permalink) Old 01-26-2013, 10:59 AM
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Re: DILEMMA: Is Andy Murray a transitional slam champion?

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^ And who would stop them? David Ferrer can still compete and win among these youngsters despite the age and to some extent Tommy Haas. It would really give you a picture about the situation right now. And that's not saying Nole and Murray have far superior fitness than the other two.

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post #26 of 43 (permalink) Old 01-26-2013, 11:02 AM
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Re: DILEMMA: Is Andy Murray a transitional slam champion?

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They'll be there abouts for another few years. Who else is going to overtake them?
We don't know who. But more often than not, someone comes along. After 2010 nobody would have guessed Nadal + Federer would only win one slam in 2011. Suddenly someone takes that next step.
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post #27 of 43 (permalink) Old 01-26-2013, 11:04 AM
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Re: DILEMMA: Is Andy Murray a transitional slam champion?

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We don't know who. But more often than not, someone comes along. After 2010 nobody would have guessed Nadal + Federer would only win one slam in 2011. Suddenly someone takes that next step.
By then Murray and Djokovic were on the cusp and challenging consistently. Who are the equivalents now? It could happen but right now it's unlikely.

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post #28 of 43 (permalink) Old 01-26-2013, 11:07 AM
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Re: DILEMMA: Is Andy Murray a transitional slam champion?

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Originally Posted by Litotes View Post
We don't know who. But more often than not, someone comes along. After 2010 nobody would have guessed Nadal + Federer would only win one slam in 2011. Suddenly someone takes that next step.
But there is absolutely no sign of it happening!Same old results with same old players. Tsonga and Wawrinka came closest to breaking the top 4 in this tournament, but no one else came close. And even if they did, they would've have had to back up that result with another win. Something the lower ranked guys have consistently failed to do.

There quite literally is no one on the horizon who will break through. Tomic still looks 2 years away. Dimitrov looks like a 'never will be', same with Harrison. Janovitz is probably 2 years away too. Raonic is a servebot with nothing else - he could improve in time?
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post #29 of 43 (permalink) Old 01-26-2013, 11:09 AM
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Re: DILEMMA: Is Andy Murray a transitional slam champion?

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Originally Posted by leng jai View Post
They'll be there abouts for another few years. Who else is going to overtake them?
Who knows? There's a bunch of underperforming guys in their early to mid 20s who might eventually get their shit together. Dimitrov has been spudding it up for a long time, but the elements are there if he can get an attitude transplant and pull it all together. Cilic and Raonic have potential even though they seem to be mostly wasting it. Tomic may break through. Look at Federer - one day he was spudding along as a top 15 player and everyone said he was an overhyped pretty boy. Nek minnit, he's winning Wimbledon.

It doesn't necessarily have to involve them becoming as good as Djokovic and Murray are now either. I think people are forgetting how quickly defence-heavy players go from slam winners to highly beatable spuds as soon as they lose a step of speed. Look at Hewitt, Chang, Wilander. Murray and Djokovic have good weapons but if they can't get into the right position with time to hit them comfortably they suddenly become very ineffective. They're only an injury away from that happening. If they drop back a bit, suddenly they may find themselves losing to guys like Tsonga, Berdych and Del Potro who are less able but play games with likely greater longevity.

I think that unlike Nadal, Murray and Djokovic have the ability to adjust their games to their aging bodies - I actually think Djokovic could have great longevity if he moulds himself into an Agassi-style player based around his return and offensively dictating rallies from the middle of the court. But it remains to be seen if they in fact do that.

Djokovic and Murray may rule the game until they're 30. But I really don't think they will.
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post #30 of 43 (permalink) Old 01-26-2013, 11:13 AM
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Re: DILEMMA: Is Andy Murray a transitional slam champion?

I think people need to realise that the game itself is in transition. Long were the days where players started challenging at 18/18/19 and then dominating from 20-25. Players aren't peaking until 25/26 onwards. If Ferrer can play as well as he does at 30 then surely someone like Djokovic or Murray who is far more talented can win slams at least until 27/28. It's not necessarily a weak era, I just think the game has become far more physical which has come as a result of the slower courts/balls.
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