Is Ferrer the most undeserving top 5 player ever? - MensTennisForums.com
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post #1 of 397 (permalink) Old 01-24-2013, 06:24 PM Thread Starter
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Is Ferrer the most undeserving top 5 player ever?

I like the guy. He's got grit, mental strength but his game...

Can comparison be drawn to any player of the past in the top five who was there at the top years on end but couldn't dent a scratch on the other guys at the top.

I can't think of any. Henman, Haas, Ferrero were all quite talented and their H2H versus top 5 was surely not as lopsided as Ferrer's. He's achieved nothing remarkable outside of defeating Murray on clay. But the rest are immune.

Only adds fodder to Lenders theory that Ferrer vultured his way to the top.

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post #2 of 397 (permalink) Old 01-24-2013, 06:27 PM
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Re: Is Ferrer the most undeserving top 5 player ever?

It's between him and Boredo for sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger the Dodger View Post
I like the guy. He's got grit, mental strength but his game...

Can comparison be drawn to any player of the past in the top five who was there at the top years on end but couldn't dent a scratch on the other guys at the top.

I can't think of any. Henman, Haas, Ferrero were all quite talented and their H2H versus top 5 was surely not as lopsided as Ferrer's. He's achieved nothing remarkable outside of defeating Murray on clay. But the rest are immune.

Only adds fodder to Lenders theory that Ferrer vultured his way to the top.
It has long ceased to be a 'theory', but rather a verified fact.

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post #3 of 397 (permalink) Old 01-24-2013, 06:33 PM
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Re: Is Ferrer the most undeserving top 5 player ever?

Boredo. At least Ferrer didn't cheat to win his TMS.

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post #4 of 397 (permalink) Old 01-24-2013, 06:35 PM
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Re: Is Ferrer the most undeserving top 5 player ever?

Defeating Murray on clay is remarkable? Some Clay king Murray is then.

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post #5 of 397 (permalink) Old 01-24-2013, 06:35 PM
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Re: Is Ferrer the most undeserving top 5 player ever?

there's no such thing as undeserved. Numbers don't lie, and he has been in or around the top 5 for quite awhile.
That being said, his game is not good enough to ever get any higher, unless disaster strikes the other 4 (happened to Nadal already, so who knows?)

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post #6 of 397 (permalink) Old 01-24-2013, 06:36 PM
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Re: Is Ferrer the most undeserving top 5 player ever?

what can you answer to such stupidity ? what a shame that this guy is a fellow-Fedtard

just a stat and I leave from this shit :

I updated my stats about the highest number of ATP points players would have got since 2000 with the ranking system which prevailed between 2000 and 2008, and with more ATP points than Ferrer, you only have players who reached number 1 and Murray who will probably reach it one day as well :

Code:
Federer 8370 (20.11.06) Nadal 7845 (11.05.09) Djokovic 7785 (12.09.11) Murray 5505 (24.08.09, n2) Agassi 5208 (03.04.00) Hewitt 5205 (12.08.02) Roddick 5185 (02.08.04, n2) 
Kuerten 4750 (10.09.01) Ferrero 4570 (20.10.03) Safin 4300 (03.05.01) Ferrer 3880 (28.01.13, n4) Del Potro 3845 (11.01.10, n4) Coria 3770 (5.07.04, n3) 
Söderling 3760 (21.02.11, n4) Sampras 3739 (23.10.00, n1) Norman 3610 (17.07.00, n2) Davydenko 3525 (22.03.10, n6) Tsonga 3500 (06.08.12, n6) 
Nalbandian 3360 (12.06.06, n3) Ljubicic 3315 (21.08.06, n3) Schuettler 3205 (17.11.03, n6) Berdych 3190 (22.10.12, n6) Moya 3160 (09.06.03, n4) Kafelnikov 3145 (19.11.01; n4) 
Rafter 3065 (10.09.01, n4) Haas 3030 (19.08.02, n3) Grosjean 2865 (19.11.01, n6) Henman 2825 (13.09.04, n4) Gonzalez 2810 (21.05.07, n5) Enqvist 2693 (11.09.00, n6) 
Robredo 2645 (02.04.07, n6) Blake 2605 (29.01.07, n6) Verdasco 2560 (03.05.10, n9) Corretja 2475 (04.12.00, n8) Gaudio 2440 (16.05.05, n6) Youzhny 2440 (04.10.10, n8) 
Kiefer 2435 (21.02.00, n4) Costa 2385 (22.07.02, n6) Simon 2375 (06.07.09, n7) T Johansson 2365 (22.04.02, n8) Novak 2355 (21.10.02, n5) Tipsarevic 2315 (13.08.12, n8) 
Pioline 2307 (12.06.00, n6) Gasquet 2220 (09.07.07, n7) Monfils 2150 (22.08.11, n7) Melzer 2135 (25.04.11, n8) Cilic 2135 (19.04.10, n11) Baghdatis 2111 (25.09.06, n8) 
Fish 2110 (28.11.11, n8) Canas 2075 (13.06.05, n8) Ancic 2075 (05.02.07, n9) Clement 2025 (06.08.01, n11)
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post #7 of 397 (permalink) Old 01-24-2013, 06:37 PM
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Re: Is Ferrer the most undeserving top 5 player ever?

nadal is

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post #8 of 397 (permalink) Old 01-24-2013, 06:39 PM
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Re: Is Ferrer the most undeserving top 5 player ever?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProdigyEng View Post
Defeating Murray on clay is remarkable? Some Clay king Murray is then.
The funniest thing is how he lost a set considering it was one of the worst matches Murray played the last few years.
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post #9 of 397 (permalink) Old 01-24-2013, 06:44 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Is Ferrer the most undeserving top 5 player ever?

Quote:
Originally Posted by abraxas21 View Post
nadal is
I am purely talking in terms of H2H versus the others. Nadal's H2H versus Murray, Fed, Djoker is commendable, as it should be...Ferrer's is abyssmal.

To think he's been top 5 since 2007, makes it all the more hilarious.

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post #10 of 397 (permalink) Old 01-24-2013, 06:47 PM
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Re: Is Ferrer the most undeserving top 5 player ever?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Certinfy View Post
The funniest thing is how he lost a set considering it was one of the worst matches Murray played the last few years.
Murray vs Ferrer 2013 Roland Garos final is the obvious thing to happen this year. Of course Murray will prove the vulture is awful in any slam with a straight sets win.

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post #11 of 397 (permalink) Old 01-24-2013, 06:48 PM
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Re: Is Ferrer the most undeserving top 5 player ever?

Disappointed to hear such disgusting bullshit from a Federer fan, like doung said. Didn't expect this.


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Standing ovation for Federer. Disgusting.
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post #12 of 397 (permalink) Old 01-24-2013, 06:48 PM
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Re: Is Ferrer the most undeserving top 5 player ever?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger the Dodger View Post
I am purely talking in terms of H2H versus the others. Nadal's H2H versus Murray, Fed, Djoker is commendable, as it should be...Ferrer's is abyssmal.
I keep on making stats about H2Hs between that list of players and
I was very surprised that only Fed, Nadal, Djokovic and Murray have better H2Hs among them, before today's match Ferrer was at 57% wins :

Code:
Federer	324	97	77%
Nadal	247	79	76%
Djokovic	193	90	68%
Murray	153	83	65%
Ferrer	147	114	56%
Roddick	141	112	56%
Del Potro	86	69	55%
Söderling	95	88	52%
Gonzalez	87	85	51%
Hewitt	83	85	49%
Ljubicic	88	95	48%
Nalbandian	93	100	48%
Davydenko	102	115	47%
Haas	70	81	46%
Safin	63	75	46%
Tsonga	70	82	46%
Berdych	106	130	45%
Ferrero	68	88	44%
Monfils	55	73	43%
Isner	38	52	42%
Wawrinka	68	97	41%
Youzhny	75	109	41%
Blake	62	93	40%
Raonic	17	25	40%
Nishikori	25	38	40%
Gasquet	63	98	39%
Baghdatis	52	85	38%
Verdasco	72	120	38%
Cilic	46	77	37%
Dolgopolov	27	46	37%
Simon	53	92	37%
Robredo	57	108	35%
Almagro	50	95	34%
Querrey	32	74	30%
Tomic	8	26	24%
Gulbis	18	58	24%
the stats above are updated, the ones below were made last year, I have the updated stats but will not waste my time updating this post :

Players who occupy uncharacteristically high positions in the rankings?

Ferrer-Djoko 5-9 // Berdych-Djoko 1-9
Ferrer-Murray 5-6 // Berdych-Murray 4-3
Ferrer-Nadal 4-15 // Berdych-Nadal 3-11
Ferrer-Federer 0-13 // Berdych-Federer 5-11 : hurray for you but on clay, Ferrer met Fed in Madrid or Hamburg, on Fed's favorite clay, or a long long time ago when Ferrer was not emerging yet

Already, it's far from convincing for Berdych except his hurray-record against Fed, but look at the following carefully : you will see that most of the time, Ferrer has positive H2Hs against other best players while it's the opposite for Berdych :

Ferrer-Del Po 5-2 // Berdych-Del Po 2-4
Ferrer-Berdych 5-3 // Berdych-Ferrer 3-5
Ferrer-Tsonga 1-1 // Berdych-Tsonga 1-1
Ferrer-Söderling 4-10 // Berdych-Söderling 3-6

Ferrer-Roddick 7-4 // Berdych-Roddick 5-6
Ferrer-Davydenko 2-3 // Berdych-Davydenko 2-9
Ferrer-Nalbandian 8-5 // Berdych-Nalbandian 1-4
Ferrer-Ljubicic 6-1 // Berdych-Ljubicic 2-3
Ferrer-Haas 2-0 // Berdych-Haas 2-2
Ferrer-Gonzo 5-5 // Berdych-Gonzo 3-4
Ferrer-Blake 1-2 / Berdych-Blake 3-2
Ferrer-Youzhny 3-4 // Berdych-Youzhny 5-6
Ferrer-Robredo 5-2 // Berdych-Robredo 4-3

Ferrer-Gasquet 7-1 // Berdych-Gasquet 2-4
Ferrer-Monfils 0-3 // Berdych-Monfils 3-0 : hurray, you've got your case, Berdych owns Monfils while Monfils owns Ferrer !
Ferrer-Baghdatis 3-1 // Berdych-Baghdatis 3-2
Ferrer-Wawrinka 5-3 // Berdych-Wawrinka 4-5
Ferrer-Simon 4-1 // Berdych-Simon 2-4
Ferrer-Almagro 11-0 // Berdych-Almagro 7-3

Ferrer-Raonic 4-0 // Berdych-Raonic 0-1
Ferrer-Isner 4-1 // Berdych-Isner 2-2
Ferrer-Cilic 3-1 // Berdych-Cilic 4-1
Ferrer-Dolgopolov 4-1 // Berdych-Dolgopolov 2-0

Last edited by duong; 01-24-2013 at 06:55 PM.
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post #13 of 397 (permalink) Old 01-24-2013, 06:50 PM
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Re: Is Ferrer the most undeserving top 5 player ever?

Repeatedly beats players ranked below him, so I don't see how it's undeserving.


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post #14 of 397 (permalink) Old 01-24-2013, 06:51 PM
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Re: Is Ferrer the most undeserving top 5 player ever?

Quote:
Originally Posted by duong View Post
I keep on making stats about H2Hs between that list of players and
I was very surprised that only Fed, Nadal, Djokovic and Murray have better H2Hs among them, before today's match Ferrer was at 57% wins :

Code:
Federer	324	97	77%
Nadal	247	79	76%
Djokovic	193	90	68%
Murray	153	83	65%
Ferrer	147	114	56%
Roddick	141	112	56%
Del Potro	86	69	55%
Söderling	95	88	52%
Gonzalez	87	85	51%
Hewitt	83	85	49%
Ljubicic	88	95	48%
Nalbandian	93	100	48%
Davydenko	102	115	47%
Haas	70	81	46%
Safin	63	75	46%
Tsonga	70	82	46%
Berdych	106	130	45%
Ferrero	68	88	44%
Monfils	55	73	43%
Isner	38	52	42%
Wawrinka	68	97	41%
Youzhny	75	109	41%
Blake	62	93	40%
Raonic	17	25	40%
Nishikori	25	38	40%
Gasquet	63	98	39%
Baghdatis	52	85	38%
Verdasco	72	120	38%
Cilic	46	77	37%
Dolgopolov	27	46	37%
Simon	53	92	37%
Robredo	57	108	35%
Almagro	50	95	34%
Querrey	32	74	30%
Tomic	8	26	24%
Gulbis	18	58	24%
Players who occupy uncharacteristically high positions in the rankings?

Ferrer-Djoko 5-9 // Berdych-Djoko 1-9
Ferrer-Murray 5-6 // Berdych-Murray 4-3
Ferrer-Nadal 4-15 // Berdych-Nadal 3-11
Ferrer-Federer 0-13 // Berdych-Federer 5-11 : hurray for you but on clay, Ferrer met Fed in Madrid or Hamburg, on Fed's favorite clay, or a long long time ago when Ferrer was not emerging yet

Already, it's far from convincing for Berdych except his hurray-record against Fed, but look at the following carefully : you will see that most of the time, Ferrer has positive H2Hs against other best players while it's the opposite for Berdych :

Ferrer-Del Po 5-2 // Berdych-Del Po 2-4
Ferrer-Berdych 5-3 // Berdych-Ferrer 3-5
Ferrer-Tsonga 1-1 // Berdych-Tsonga 1-1
Ferrer-Söderling 4-10 // Berdych-Söderling 3-6

Ferrer-Roddick 7-4 // Berdych-Roddick 5-6
Ferrer-Davydenko 2-3 // Berdych-Davydenko 2-9
Ferrer-Nalbandian 8-5 // Berdych-Nalbandian 1-4
Ferrer-Ljubicic 6-1 // Berdych-Ljubicic 2-3
Ferrer-Haas 2-0 // Berdych-Haas 2-2
Ferrer-Gonzo 5-5 // Berdych-Gonzo 3-4
Ferrer-Blake 1-2 / Berdych-Blake 3-2
Ferrer-Youzhny 3-4 // Berdych-Youzhny 5-6
Ferrer-Robredo 5-2 // Berdych-Robredo 4-3

Ferrer-Gasquet 7-1 // Berdych-Gasquet 2-4
Ferrer-Monfils 0-3 // Berdych-Monfils 3-0 : hurray, you've got your case, Berdych owns Monfils while Monfils owns Ferrer !
Ferrer-Baghdatis 3-1 // Berdych-Baghdatis 3-2
Ferrer-Wawrinka 5-3 // Berdych-Wawrinka 4-5
Ferrer-Simon 4-1 // Berdych-Simon 2-4
Ferrer-Almagro 11-0 // Berdych-Almagro 7-3

Ferrer-Raonic 4-0 // Berdych-Raonic 0-1
Ferrer-Isner 4-1 // Berdych-Isner 2-2
Ferrer-Cilic 3-1 // Berdych-Cilic 4-1
Ferrer-Dolgopolov 4-1 // Berdych-Dolgopolov 2-0
Fail stats. Berdych Murray H2H is even you mug

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post #15 of 397 (permalink) Old 01-24-2013, 06:53 PM
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Re: Is Ferrer the most undeserving top 5 player ever?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProdigyEng View Post
Fail stats. Berdych Murray H2H is even you mug
the first part of my stats is updated, the second part I just linked a message from last year which I didn't update

I have the updated stats but I will not waste time to update the post for such bullshit, sorry
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