Is Ferrer the most undeserving top 5 player ever? - Page 2 - MensTennisForums.com

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post #16 of 397 (permalink) Old 01-24-2013, 05:54 PM
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Re: Is Ferrer the most undeserving top 5 player ever?

Gamewise, he is only Top 5 in Topform. The way he played this AO was not Top 5 tennis.
But it was enough to beat the mental weaker Almagro in QF.

But, the main argument PRO Ferrer is this:
He leads the HEAD to HEAD against Berdych, Del Potro, Tsonga, Tipsarevic and Gasquet.
So he definitely belongs to the Top 5.

For this AO: But of course, Almagro should have/ must have won against him after 64 64 lead.

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post #17 of 397 (permalink) Old 01-24-2013, 05:56 PM
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Re: Is Ferrer the most undeserving top 5 player ever?

Most undeserving? No.
Least threatening? Yes.
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post #18 of 397 (permalink) Old 01-24-2013, 05:56 PM
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Re: Is Ferrer the most undeserving top 5 player ever?

http://tennisabstract.com/reports/h2hMatrix.html

His H2H with the players above him is similar to that of the other 3 players behind him in the top10. If anything I would point that the difference in points between him and the
other players in the top8 is inflated. Besides this, you have hardly anything on Ferrer, he is a decent customer and a great competitor and deserving of a Top8 position with the current crop of players.
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post #19 of 397 (permalink) Old 01-24-2013, 06:00 PM
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Re: Is Ferrer the most undeserving top 5 player ever?

in terms of threat to those above, Harold Solomon? though he did beat Vilas in a slam.

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post #20 of 397 (permalink) Old 01-24-2013, 06:01 PM
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Re: Is Ferrer the most undeserving top 5 player ever?

Quote:
Originally Posted by duong View Post
the first part of my stats is updated, the second part I just linked a message from last year which I didn't update

I have the updated stats but I will not waste time to update the post for such bullshit, sorry
But it's important info, mate.

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post #21 of 397 (permalink) Old 01-24-2013, 06:02 PM
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Re: Is Ferrer the most undeserving top 5 player ever?

Ferrer is now top four, and no, I don't think he is most undeserving top ranked player ever. But I will have to think who is less deserving historically among those who have made it to five or higher. There must have been some flash in the pans in the past who had a great run during one year but were unable to maintain the ranking. Ferrer has reached 500 career wins, and no one at that total wins level as far as I can tell is undeserving of any high rankings they achieved. But maybe someone with fewer career wins made it up high and kind of fizzled out. Hey, maybe the model for this is someone like Petr Korda.
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post #22 of 397 (permalink) Old 01-24-2013, 06:04 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Is Ferrer the most undeserving top 5 player ever?

Quote:
Originally Posted by duong View Post
I keep on making stats about H2Hs between that list of players and
I was very surprised that only Fed, Nadal, Djokovic and Murray have better H2Hs among them, before today's match Ferrer was at 57% wins :

Code:
Federer	324	97	77%
Nadal	247	79	76%
Djokovic	193	90	68%
Murray	153	83	65%
Ferrer	147	114	56%
Roddick	141	112	56%
Del Potro	86	69	55%
Söderling	95	88	52%
Gonzalez	87	85	51%
Hewitt	83	85	49%
Ljubicic	88	95	48%
Nalbandian	93	100	48%
Davydenko	102	115	47%
Haas	70	81	46%
Safin	63	75	46%
Tsonga	70	82	46%
Berdych	106	130	45%
Ferrero	68	88	44%
Monfils	55	73	43%
Isner	38	52	42%
Wawrinka	68	97	41%
Youzhny	75	109	41%
Blake	62	93	40%
Raonic	17	25	40%
Nishikori	25	38	40%
Gasquet	63	98	39%
Baghdatis	52	85	38%
Verdasco	72	120	38%
Cilic	46	77	37%
Dolgopolov	27	46	37%
Simon	53	92	37%
Robredo	57	108	35%
Almagro	50	95	34%
Querrey	32	74	30%
Tomic	8	26	24%
Gulbis	18	58	24%
the stats above are updated, the ones below were made last year, I have the updated stats but will not waste my time updating this post :

Players who occupy uncharacteristically high positions in the rankings?

Ferrer-Djoko 5-9 // Berdych-Djoko 1-9
Ferrer-Murray 5-6 // Berdych-Murray 4-3
Ferrer-Nadal 4-15 // Berdych-Nadal 3-11
Ferrer-Federer 0-13 // Berdych-Federer 5-11 : hurray for you but on clay, Ferrer met Fed in Madrid or Hamburg, on Fed's favorite clay, or a long long time ago when Ferrer was not emerging yet

Already, it's far from convincing for Berdych except his hurray-record against Fed, but look at the following carefully : you will see that most of the time, Ferrer has positive H2Hs against other best players while it's the opposite for Berdych :

Ferrer-Del Po 5-2 // Berdych-Del Po 2-4
Ferrer-Berdych 5-3 // Berdych-Ferrer 3-5
Ferrer-Tsonga 1-1 // Berdych-Tsonga 1-1
Ferrer-Söderling 4-10 // Berdych-Söderling 3-6

Ferrer-Roddick 7-4 // Berdych-Roddick 5-6
Ferrer-Davydenko 2-3 // Berdych-Davydenko 2-9
Ferrer-Nalbandian 8-5 // Berdych-Nalbandian 1-4
Ferrer-Ljubicic 6-1 // Berdych-Ljubicic 2-3
Ferrer-Haas 2-0 // Berdych-Haas 2-2
Ferrer-Gonzo 5-5 // Berdych-Gonzo 3-4
Ferrer-Blake 1-2 / Berdych-Blake 3-2
Ferrer-Youzhny 3-4 // Berdych-Youzhny 5-6
Ferrer-Robredo 5-2 // Berdych-Robredo 4-3

Ferrer-Gasquet 7-1 // Berdych-Gasquet 2-4
Ferrer-Monfils 0-3 // Berdych-Monfils 3-0 : hurray, you've got your case, Berdych owns Monfils while Monfils owns Ferrer !
Ferrer-Baghdatis 3-1 // Berdych-Baghdatis 3-2
Ferrer-Wawrinka 5-3 // Berdych-Wawrinka 4-5
Ferrer-Simon 4-1 // Berdych-Simon 2-4
Ferrer-Almagro 11-0 // Berdych-Almagro 7-3

Ferrer-Raonic 4-0 // Berdych-Raonic 0-1
Ferrer-Isner 4-1 // Berdych-Isner 2-2
Ferrer-Cilic 3-1 // Berdych-Cilic 4-1
Ferrer-Dolgopolov 4-1 // Berdych-Dolgopolov 2-0
Simmer down. The point of the thread isn't to compare a top 5 player with those below him. I am talking about top 5 as a group - in which he fares with a small number of victories over five massive years. So better comparisons would be with other batches of top five players, as we go backwards. And please don't bring in the 'this era is stronger' crap, ... given you are in a position to bring up those stats.

I am sure when you consider top five as a unit in say 2001 or 2002, or just go erawise before the terrier stole the bone, you'll see more balanced H2Hs, as it persists among the top four, but sadly with Ferrer as an outsider. That's why I call him undeserving.

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post #23 of 397 (permalink) Old 01-24-2013, 06:07 PM
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Re: Is Ferrer the most undeserving top 5 player ever?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathless Mortal View Post
Repeatedly beats players ranked below him, so I don't see how it's undeserving.
This. Plus Ferrer has beaten Nadal and Murray in slams.

Ridiculus thread to start with, since Ferrer is one of the hardest workers on tour and as such, I cannot see why he is undeserving of the spot.

"He is not that talented" you say. Yet he almost always lives up to or exceeds his seeding. Therefore do not blame Pics, blame the shitty era.

MTF must be the only place where someone is insulted for simply being in the world top 5. Absolutely pathetic.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyV View Post
We should be appreciative of Federer though, because we will never see anything like him again. The fact he can still compete for slams ever after the erosion of his physical skills is really a greater testament to the natural talent he has than the period of time when he was dominating the tour.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allez View Post
Nadal is by far the most naturally talented player of all time and that is the reason his stay at the top is a lot longer than players like Federer etc were able to do.
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post #24 of 397 (permalink) Old 01-24-2013, 06:16 PM
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Re: Is Ferrer the most undeserving top 5 player ever?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger the Dodger View Post
Simmer down. The point of the thread isn't to compare a top 5 player with those below him. I am talking about top 5 as a group - in which he fares with a small number of victories over five massive years. So better comparisons would be with other batches of top five players, as we go backwards. And please don't bring in the 'this era is stronger' crap, ... given you are in a position to bring up those stats.

I am sure when you consider top five as a unit in say 2001 or 2002, or just go erawise before the terrier stole the bone, you'll see more balanced H2Hs, as it persists among the top four, but sadly with Ferrer as an outsider. That's why I call him undeserving.
Its not Ferrers fault that the gap between the top 4 and the rest is much bigger in this era than in others. He is still the best out of the remaining players so how exactly is his ranking undeserved?
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post #25 of 397 (permalink) Old 01-24-2013, 06:25 PM
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Re: Is Ferrer the most undeserving top 5 player ever?

Perhaps. Ferrer's main purpose as a tennis player is to serve as sleep aid for those who suffer from insomnia.
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post #26 of 397 (permalink) Old 01-24-2013, 06:38 PM
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Re: Is Ferrer the most undeserving top 5 player ever?

The bully-bandwagoon for Ferrer in full force today!

No he's not undeserving of top 5 what a bullshit statement. No-one is claiming Ferrer is GOAT or a top 3 player. But he is Mr consistency which in itself is a wonderful quality. In the last 5 slams he has 3 Sfs and 2 Qfs.

Respectable showing for a top 5 player dont you think?

Nadal not being in AO and USO definatley made his draw easier but what about the Qfs and SFs he made when Nadal was in the draw!

Funny how Ferrer is such a worse player than Potro, Berdych and Tsonga yet has a winning H2H Vs all of them

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post #27 of 397 (permalink) Old 01-24-2013, 06:50 PM
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Re: Is Ferrer the most undeserving top 5 player ever?

Only reason he's top5 is Soderlings sickness. He was Sod's pigeon. Considering how complete the destruction was in their final meeting (on clay) that wasn't about to change.


Sure it isn't Ferrer's fault but he would never have achieved his ranking without the injury problems of Delpo, sickness of Sod and injury of Nadal. He's taking full advantage of a very weak state of the ATP tour
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post #28 of 397 (permalink) Old 01-24-2013, 06:52 PM
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Re: Is Ferrer the most undeserving top 5 player ever?

Why did the mods delete the thread about players with a higher peak level than Ferrer ? It was a totally legit discussion. There's peak vs peak threads all the time on GM and yet one that claims Ferrer's peak is inferior to some players isn't allowed to stay? Sounds fair.

On topic, yes he is along with Boredo.

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post #29 of 397 (permalink) Old 01-24-2013, 06:55 PM
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Re: Is Ferrer the most undeserving top 5 player ever?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxPower View Post
Only reason he's top5 is Soderlings sickness. He was Sod's pigeon. Considering how complete the destruction was in their final meeting (on clay) that wasn't about to change.


Sure it isn't Ferrer's fault but he would never have achieved his ranking without the injury problems of Delpo, sickness of Sod and injury of Nadal. He's taking full advantage of a very weak state of the ATP tour
I miss Soderling.
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post #30 of 397 (permalink) Old 01-24-2013, 06:57 PM
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Re: Is Ferrer the most undeserving top 5 player ever?

so whos making the "is Berdych the most underserving top 6 player ever" thread?
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