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post #31 of 113 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 03:02 PM
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Re: Fitzpatrick about prize money: very interesting article

he lost a rough one today. 7-6 in the third from a set and a break up
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post #32 of 113 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 03:33 PM
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Re: Fitzpatrick about prize money: very interesting article

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Originally Posted by Houstonko View Post
Tennis is really tough, much more tougher than soccer and NBA. Imagine only 100 players in the world make something, from 50-100 there are doubts they make comfortable money too. Players like Yen Hsun Lu at one point don't have money for coach.

Playing in soccer div 2 league is able to live comfortably. In NBA all of them are rich regardless of team.
Team sports are different I think. Public demand is in terms of how many matches they want to see and in tennis the "competitive unit" for the match is the human being while in soccer it is the team. Each team needs 11 men plus 11 or more back-ups. A Division 2 player is more like a tennis player at 33-64 in the rankings.
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post #33 of 113 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 03:39 PM
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Re: Fitzpatrick about prize money: very interesting article

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I find this a very difficult topic. On the one hand it irritates me that some people's careers are hampered due to financial problems and unwillingness of the ITF to up the pricemoney at challengers and futures. On the other hand... we need a system that filters the great from the good, and the good from the average. Tennis leagues in all countries support their biggest talents. They can't support everyone who is pretty good at it, as this would cost too much money and will probably cost the real talents. It's the major stars that bring in the money for the ITF/ATP, not the futureplayers.

I feel for Fitzpatick, and I obviously know nothing of his talent or his game, but I think alot of the time the players also need to be realistic with themselves. Maybe they just aren't good enough. A friend of mine was a promising footballtalent, played at Ajax in the juniors. He just wasn't good enough for the top, so he could've played in a lower league, where he'd be scraping by, or he could go to college. He wisely chose the latter. Being a top player is not for everyone
I wasn't going to write a response but this just about covers it. Sport (even the popular ones) is an elite type of job. Only the best make it and conversely to the real world where you can be OK and get by, in sports you need to be pretty good to be well-off.


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post #34 of 113 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 03:59 PM
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Re: Fitzpatrick about prize money: very interesting article

I completely understand Fitzpatrick's concerns, but he isn't the kind of guy who I'd expect or even want to be making a lot of cash, at least from tennis. He's soon going to be 24, he hasn't ever looked like making the step up into the challenger tour. I don't think it's realistic or wise to start rewarding this level of play.

Having said that, the guys on the challenger tour are incredibly good. It's like second division football, and some of those guys will make close to half a million pounds a year. In tennis, that isn't ever going to happen, but the level of pay needs to increase.

The futures circuit, I think the prize money should be altered, but only slightly. Give talented youngsters enough money to play the tournaments they need to make the step up. What we don't want is a situation where guys like Fitzpatrick are sitting comfortably, not looking like improving beyond the 500 mark in the world.

So overall, I'd say jack up the prize money in challengers. That's where it has to go.
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post #35 of 113 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 04:13 PM
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Re: Fitzpatrick about prize money: very interesting article

I think the ITF tournaments should have less geographical spread. Why not have always have four consecutive tournaments in one location? That would save players a lot of money.
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post #36 of 113 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 04:15 PM
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Re: Fitzpatrick about prize money: very interesting article

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So overall, I'd say jack up the prize money in challengers. That's where it has to go.
Agreed.

If you dont pass the stage of playing Futures relatively quickly, you probably dont have enough talent anyway.
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post #37 of 113 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 04:16 PM
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Re: Fitzpatrick about prize money: very interesting article

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Team sports are different I think. Public demand is in terms of how many matches they want to see and in tennis the "competitive unit" for the match is the human being while in soccer it is the team. Each team needs 11 men plus 11 or more back-ups. A Division 2 player is more like a tennis player at 33-64 in the rankings.
In team sports you also have the social part, in which a good number of people associate themselves with the town/province of the team itself, also they can watch them live every second week a few steps from home, so it's a huge base for having much more spectators and fans to purchase tickets and jerseys, so it's indeed incomparable.
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post #38 of 113 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 04:21 PM
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Re: Fitzpatrick about prize money: very interesting article

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I think the ITF tournaments should have less geographical spread. Why not have always have four consecutive tournaments in one location? That would save players a lot of money.
they are relatively tight spread i would say.

This example will get worn soon, but in Turkey you have like 50 Futures per year, if not more.

Normally things are going just normal in tennis, except that they perhaps could sync a bit the prize money with the inflation for the last few years, but otherwise i believe the system is a well oiled machine and might even be a bit over-oiled actually (a bit too many low level tournaments, which makes a number of players stuck in the lowest divisions, which makes it harder to gain enough points to make steps ahead...which results in having much less young players in the top ranks), but from a general point of view things are pretty OK i think.
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post #39 of 113 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 04:32 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Fitzpatrick about prize money: very interesting article

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I think the ITF tournaments should have less geographical spread. Why not have always have four consecutive tournaments in one location? That would save players a lot of money.
this
also, trying to add hospitality(which is easier for tournament director than uploading the prize money) in as many futures as possible would help a lot too

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post #40 of 113 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 05:16 PM
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Re: Fitzpatrick about prize money: very interesting article

Prize money can stay where they are right now, should not be increased. It's not acceptable to have players make a living by just playing futures or low-level challengers at low qualities. If they can't do a good job, then they need to find something else they are good at. I think ITF should mandate mandatory hospitality for all entry level tournaments. Having mandatory hospitality gives the player the necessities such as:

- A place to sleep (can be shared room)
- Edible meals (buffet?)
- Less traveling

These will all help a player to perform better in a tournament. Essentially if players have a heart for tennis they can play tournaments for cheap (other than mandatory fees, sign up fees and traveling expenses) but won't earn anything back if you perform horribly. The night you finish all your tournaments is the last night you live in the accommodations (or pay for additional nights). You can't really make a living out of it but you can stay longer on the tour if you have a passion or you just need more time to prosper.

Since mandatory housing would cost a bit more, ITF should cooperate with ATP to make sure there are no tournaments levels where it can be cheaper to hold. To put it simply, take out all the 10Ks and 15Ks and mandate them as 10K+H or 15K+H. Once the players are good enough (earn enough ranking points) to play in the challengers, mandatory hospitality will not be necessary because that's where the challenge begins. A player can always fall back to futures if they don't perform well in the challengers, but they won't make a living there (only basic accommodations while playing) so they won't want to stay there for their entire career.

Both futures and challengers can be minimum double occupancy (unless the tournaments want to offer better lodging for the players). If players want to have a room to themselves or have their coach/trainer etc. share a room with them, then they can pay the differences. Hence, only the player gets the free room and not everyone else (a single occupancy would create that problem, but up to the tournament's discretion to allow and cover up the expenses).

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post #41 of 113 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 05:21 PM
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Re: Fitzpatrick about prize money: very interesting article

I would like to see Futures prize money go up a bit but not to the point where people ranked 500 can make a living. Fitzpatrick is a decent futures level player but I have never seen anything in him that makes me think he is likely to ever make a challenger level player.
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post #42 of 113 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 05:31 PM
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Re: Fitzpatrick about prize money: very interesting article

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ITF - "If you're 23 and 509th in the World, either find a real job or find sponsors, we don't have money to waste".

Fair.
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Originally Posted by Sombrerero loco View Post
endless trolling
Why is this trolling? He (Fitzpatrick) wants to make living doing his hobby, but he isn't good enough.
I would also love to make a living doing some sports, but I am not good enough. I have to have a real job, maybe he should get one too.

In less developed countries, people would love to be able to have a british passport, and be able to get a shitty job.
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post #43 of 113 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 05:40 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Fitzpatrick about prize money: very interesting article

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Originally Posted by coolfish1103 View Post
Prize money can stay where they are right now, should not be increased. It's not acceptable to have players make a living by just playing futures or low-level challengers at low qualities. If they can't do a good job, then they need to find something else they are good at. I think ITF should mandate mandatory hospitality for all entry level tournaments. Having mandatory hospitality gives the player the necessities such as:

- A place to sleep (can be shared room)
- Edible meals (buffet?)
- Less traveling

These will all help a player to perform better in a tournament. Essentially if players have a heart for tennis they can play tournaments for cheap (other than mandatory fees, sign up fees and traveling expenses) but won't earn anything back if you perform horribly. The night you finish all your tournaments is the last night you live in the accommodations (or pay for additional nights). You can't really make a living out of it but you can stay longer on the tour if you have a passion or you just need more time to prosper.

Since mandatory housing would cost a bit more, ITF should cooperate with ATP to make sure there are no tournaments levels where it can be cheaper to hold. To put it simply, take out all the 10Ks and 15Ks and mandate them as 10K+H or 15K+H. Once the players are good enough (earn enough ranking points) to play in the challengers, mandatory hospitality will not be necessary because that's where the challenge begins. A player can always fall back to futures if they don't perform well in the challengers, but they won't make a living there (only basic accommodations while playing) so they won't want to stay there for their entire career.

Both futures and challengers can be minimum double occupancy (unless the tournaments want to offer better lodging for the players). If players want to have a room to themselves or have their coach/trainer etc. share a room with them, then they can pay the differences. Hence, only the player gets the free room and not everyone else (a single occupancy would create that problem, but up to the tournament's discretion to allow and cover up the expenses).
this would be great imo. i mean, you have very good ideas. i really hope the ITF would read them and maybe try to make it to the tour. it would be really great, really. and also, giving hospilaity is easier for tournament directors, it also can help some hotels to get guest when they dont usually get a lot(like spain in autumn and similar)

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post #44 of 113 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 05:41 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Fitzpatrick about prize money: very interesting article

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Originally Posted by Agrajag View Post
Why is this trolling? He (Fitzpatrick) wants to make living doing his hobby, but he isn't good enough.
I would also love to make a living doing some sports, but I am not good enough. I have to have a real job, maybe he should get one too.

In less developed countries, people would love to be able to have a british passport, and be able to get a shitty job.
man, you cant tell someone who is winning singles and doubles titles on the futures tour that is just a hobby do you even realize how good he is and how much does he train? you cant call that a hobby at all

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post #45 of 113 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 05:47 PM
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Re: Fitzpatrick about prize money: very interesting article

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Originally Posted by Sombrerero loco View Post
man, you cant tell someone who is winning singles and doubles titles on the futures tour that is just a hobby do you even realize how good he is and how much does he train? you cant call that a hobby at all
I am sure he is a very good player, but if he can't make a living out of it, then he is NOT a professional. There might be some middle ground here, but the guy is 23. The chance of him making it to the show are very small.

It is no human right to make a living doing what you love.
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