Federer and Break Points - Page 2 - MensTennisForums.com

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #16 of 56 (permalink) Old 01-19-2013, 10:17 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 4,547
                     
Re: Federer and Break Points

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderhandSmash View Post
Federer's BP conversion stat is ok. Not as good as Djokovic or Nadal.

Heres how I see it. Every player is effected by nerves. But I think players who are defensive/retrievers are not as effected by this. A defensive player can "shut off" his brain when he has a BP opportunity, and just concentrate on returning the ball. Concentrate on that single action.

A player like Federer attempts to construct the point well. He cant just concentrate on defending and putting the ball back in. He has to think more, he cant "shut off" his brain, so he will be effected more by nerves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fed=ATPTourkilla View Post
I agree save that it's not only defensive players who can "shut off" their brains. Eg Sampras was a very attacking player but he had a very simple "one strike" playstyle which didn't involve a lot of thinking. And he was super clutch at key moments.

With Fed a lot more thinking goes into his game/ point construction, which can be affected by nerves more easily.
Good points. So you think it is nervousness?
paseo is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #17 of 56 (permalink) Old 01-19-2013, 10:18 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 4,547
                     
Re: Federer and Break Points

Quote:
Originally Posted by Looner View Post
Mods delete this thread.
Why?
paseo is offline  
post #18 of 56 (permalink) Old 01-19-2013, 10:23 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Age: 33
Posts: 53
                     
Re: Federer and Break Points

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fed=ATPTourkilla View Post
I agree save that it's not only defensive players who can "shut off" their brains. Eg Sampras was a very attacking player but he had a very simple "one strike" playstyle which didn't involve a lot of thinking. And he was super clutch at key moments.

With Fed a lot more thinking goes into his game/ point construction, which can be affected by nerves more easily.
I agree that it doesnt only apply to defensive players.
UnderhandSmash is offline  
post #19 of 56 (permalink) Old 01-19-2013, 11:02 AM
ALT-0
 
Litotes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Norway
Age: 43
Posts: 56,887
                     
Re: Federer and Break Points

Quote:
Originally Posted by JediFed View Post
Litotes, has Federer passed Sampras in tiebreaks won?
They're tied at 328.
Litotes is offline  
post #20 of 56 (permalink) Old 01-19-2013, 11:03 AM
ALT-0
 
Litotes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Norway
Age: 43
Posts: 56,887
                     
Re: Federer and Break Points

That stat is very wrong. They don't count TBs before 1992. You can only use this for players who started their careers later that that.
Litotes is offline  
post #21 of 56 (permalink) Old 01-19-2013, 11:06 AM
Registered User
 
alter ego's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Age: 28
Posts: 5,019
                     
Re: Federer and Break Points

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fed=ATPTourkilla View Post
I agree save that it's not only defensive players who can "shut off" their brains. Eg Sampras was a very attacking player but he had a very simple "one strike" playstyle which didn't involve a lot of thinking. And he was super clutch at key moments.

With Fed a lot more thinking goes into his game/ point construction, which can be affected by nerves more easily.
Dude please check the statistic first. You are comparing Sampras's best days with 31 year old Federer.
http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/P...?t=mf&y=0&s=0#
http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/P...?t=mf&y=0&s=0#
The career comparation shows that Fed and Sampras are equally clutch.
Federer
Bp saved 67%
Bp convertion 42%

Sampras
Bp saved 68%
Bp convertion 41%.

Roger Federer | Benoît Paire| Stanislas Wawrinka | Nick Kyrgios
alter ego is offline  
post #22 of 56 (permalink) Old 01-19-2013, 11:12 AM
ALT-0
 
Litotes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Norway
Age: 43
Posts: 56,887
                     
Re: Federer and Break Points

Quote:
Originally Posted by alter ego View Post
Dude please check the statistic first. You are comparing Sampras's best days with 31 year old Federer.
http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/P...?t=mf&y=0&s=0#
http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/P...?t=mf&y=0&s=0#
The career comparation shows that Fed and Sampras are equally clutch.
Federer
Bp saved 67%
Bp convertion 42%

Sampras
Bp saved 68%
Bp convertion 41%.
Those stats are probably flattering for Sampras. ATP only started making these stats in 1991, meaning Sampras' 1988-1990 effort is not taken into consideration. And Sampras was, of course, not as good in those years as his average for the rest of his career.
Litotes is offline  
post #23 of 56 (permalink) Old 01-19-2013, 11:17 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,104
                     
Re: Federer and Break Points

Quote:
Originally Posted by Litotes View Post
His BP conversion rate is not at all bad. Look here:
http://www.atpworldtour.com/Rankings...spx?y=2012&s=0

Behind Nadal (7% lower) and Djokovic (4% lower), but noone else is significantly better.

He does have low % in several big matches, though, that's true. But so does basically everyone.
He's 16th in 2012.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Matchfac...c=8&s=0&y=2012

72nd on the career list

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Matchfac...px?c=8&s=0&y=0

Not terrible, but not particularly great either.
Singularity is offline  
post #24 of 56 (permalink) Old 01-19-2013, 11:21 AM
ALT-0
 
Litotes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Norway
Age: 43
Posts: 56,887
                     
Re: Federer and Break Points

Quote:
Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
He's 16th in 2012.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Matchfac...c=8&s=0&y=2012

72nd on the career list

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Matchfac...px?c=8&s=0&y=0

Not terrible, but not particularly great either.
72nd on the career list, 1% behind #20, 2% behind #10 and 3% behind #2. That's a lot of people but not a lot of %. Remember also that numbers are completely unreliable for anyone who had part of his career before 1992.
Litotes is offline  
post #25 of 56 (permalink) Old 01-19-2013, 11:24 AM
Registered User
 
Houstonko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,271
                     
Re: Federer and Break Points

Federer shouldn't chip back on opponent's 2nd serve. He always wait for mistake. Its the reason he is not breaking Nadal.

Last yr Wimbledon he whack on Murray's 2nd serve enabled him to win.
Houstonko is offline  
post #26 of 56 (permalink) Old 01-19-2013, 11:34 AM
Registered User
 
niff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Age: 28
Posts: 2,281
                     
Re: Federer and Break Points

Quote:
Originally Posted by Litotes View Post
That stat is very wrong. They don't count TBs before 1992. You can only use this for players who started their careers later that that.
I see, thought it looked strange
niff is offline  
post #27 of 56 (permalink) Old 01-19-2013, 11:38 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,104
                     
Re: Federer and Break Points

Quote:
Originally Posted by Litotes View Post
72nd on the career list, 1% behind #20, 2% behind #10 and 3% behind #2. That's a lot of people but not a lot of %. Remember also that numbers are completely unreliable for anyone who had part of his career before 1992.
It's that way for a lot of stats in tennis, though. The margins are very fine. Eg. the top 156 players for career 2nd serve return points won are separated by 6%.

If small differences are inherently what separate good from great players, then small differences matter.
Singularity is offline  
post #28 of 56 (permalink) Old 01-19-2013, 12:09 PM
ALT-0
 
Litotes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Norway
Age: 43
Posts: 56,887
                     
Re: Federer and Break Points

Quote:
Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
It's that way for a lot of stats in tennis, though. The margins are very fine. Eg. the top 156 players for career 2nd serve return points won are separated by 6%.

If small differences are inherently what separate good from great players, then small differences matter.
Certainly small differences matter. And Federer is not elite in this respect. However, nobody can be good at everything. For a weak spot, this is not dramatic.
Litotes is offline  
post #29 of 56 (permalink) Old 01-19-2013, 12:13 PM
country flag HKz
Hakeem
 
HKz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Mesa
Posts: 5,234
                     
Re: Federer and Break Points

Quote:
Originally Posted by paseo View Post
Many of those players are just bad returners. But, Fed is a very good 1st serve retuner. Maybe that's it. Maybe because he's so bad at returning 2nd serves, he just can't convert those BPs.

I don't know.
IMO he isn't that bad, yes more return oriented players like Rafa and Novak are going to be a bit better. Perhaps Federer is a bit nervous on break points in general, but ironically he does seemingly still win the most important points in each set/match. You can't have everything anyways he is after all a very good break point saver himself.

Federer / Haas / Safin / Gaudio / Kuerten / Youzhny / Nadal / Gonzalez / Ljubicic / Hewitt / Soderling / Wawrinka / Coria / Nalbandian / Kohlschreiber
HKz is offline  
post #30 of 56 (permalink) Old 01-19-2013, 01:02 PM
Registered User
 
Imperfect Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 832
                     
Re: Federer and Break Points

Well, he admitted in an interview that he would like to possess Hewitt's grit if he can choose any player's shot/game/body.
Imperfect Angel is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the MensTennisForums.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome